Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncementsWhite Papers
Discussion GroupsFirst AidDatabasesJavaBeansGUIJava 3DVirtual MachineCORBASecurityToolsGeneral
Java DirectoryOpen Source ProjectsSample Book ChaptersUser GroupsWeb Resources
Related Topics
Databases.NETMore Topics ...

Java Forum / Tools / August 2003

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Does anyone package and sell Eclipse?

Thread view: 
Bill Boquist - 21 Aug 2003 03:24 GMT
I apologize if this is not a sufficiently technical inquiry, but I have to
start somewhere.

I work for a company in which there is substantial interest in using
Eclipse, but some reluctance to accept the licensing agreements that come
with the various downloads that are necessary to create a functioning
developer's desktop (e.g., Eclipse itself, the JDK, plugins to add
functionality, etc.). We already have many copies of WSAD for people who
need to test on the embedded server, the ability to exercise beans via the
UTC, etc. What we need is a lower-end tool for the programmers who are using
only the Java and Debug perspectives to write and test plain Java classes.
MyEclipse won't do it because it is still up to the user to download Eclipse
and the JDK, I think. Am I wrong?

If you know of any company in the business of packaging and selling
open-source software (especially Eclipse bundled with a JDK) via contractual
agreements that keep the lawyers happy (or where I should look start to look
for one), please reply and/or email william.boquist@gte.net.

Thanks,
Bill
P A Hill - 23 Aug 2003 05:51 GMT
> What we need is a lower-end tool for the programmers who are using
> only the Java and Debug perspectives to write and test plain Java classes.
> MyEclipse won't do it because it is still up to the user to download Eclipse
> and the JDK, I think. Am I wrong?

Note: Plain java class development needs no plugins.  Eclipse comes ready to go
for that.

Help me to understand your situation. You have 'programmers' who won't/can't
do two installs that are packaged as complete installations that do everything
for you?  How can that be?

Are you on windows? Have you tried the exes.  They seem so clean and straight forward.
What is there to complain about?  Can't you just send around a sysadmin or more senior
guy to take them through a few steps, maybe pair program with them for a few hours,
talk about the IDE?  But maybe you want a silver bullet because... gee I don't know.

I don't get it what do you want to skip?  I think you're thinking it is harder than it
is to install Eclipse, or that a man and his tool is sufficient and you're gaining much
by skipping an installation.  Gee let a junior talk to someone who can help them
install something; you never know they might learn something. :-)

Eclipse is a big IDE with lots of power and fun to have, but if someone can't install
two things correctly, I can't imagine they could use it with much success.

Am I missing something?  Am I too down on the metal old-school?

-Paul

p.s. For $50 an hour plus expenses, I'll show each engineer not only how to install
a JDK and Eclipse, but tell them why they need be comfortable doing that kind of thing
and I'll even show them how to use the IDE.
Dale King - 25 Aug 2003 19:01 GMT
> > What we need is a lower-end tool for the programmers who are using
> > only the Java and Debug perspectives to write and test plain Java classes.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Are you on windows? Have you tried the exes.

To be totally accurate, I would like to point out that Eclipse is not
packaged as an exe that does everything for you. It is actually packaged as
a zip file that you unzip somewhere. You can then double-click on the
executable, but that creates the workspace in the same directory as the
executable which is probably not the ideal way to operate. You probably want
your workspace somewhere else so you should create a shortcut on the desktop
to have the workspace in a better place. (It would be nice if the default
was for the workspace to be in your home directory).

Installation on Linux is even more difficult, particularly to install in a
shared location for everyone to use.

Then there is the issue of upgrading Eclipse and keeping your plug-ins.

So I can see a point to Eclipse being available as a Windows installer or as
an RPM for Linux.

--
Dale King
Scott - 27 Aug 2003 03:21 GMT
> Installation on Linux is even more difficult, particularly to install in a
> shared location for everyone to use.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> So I can see a point to Eclipse being available as a Windows installer or as
> an RPM for Linux.

Genuitec, the creators of MyEclipse, is a full service consultancy
with extensive Eclipse experience.  We'd be happy to work with you to
create a custom installer, for whatever platforms you need, based on
Eclipse best-practices for your development team.  Additionally, we'll
continue to work with you to provide the support level your
organization desires.

If you send an email to info@genuitec.com someone will be happy to
work with you on your specific requirements

--Scott
Genuitec Support
lvirden@yahoo.com - 26 Aug 2003 18:53 GMT
According to P A Hill  <goodhill@xmission.com>:
:Help me to understand your situation. You have 'programmers' who won't/can't
:do two installs that are packaged as complete installations that do everything
:for you?  How can that be?

From my read of the original poster, the concern wasn't the download and
install, but concerns over the various licenses that one encounters downloading
eclipse and the various plugins, jdks, etc.  Rather than having various
developers play internet lawyers, the OP was, in my understanding, asking
if there was some "one stop shopping" company who would provide a single
legal document that a lawyer could examine and approve.

Signature

<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ > <URL: http://www.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvirden@yahoo.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/

Bill Boquist - 27 Aug 2003 03:50 GMT
I should have been more clear....sorry. The programmers I am speaking about
are more than capable of installing Eclipse...some of them are writing
plug-ins to generate code via wizards (with WSAD) at work and running
Eclipse just fine at home. The situation is this: for most of the code that
goes in to the J2EE apps written at the company I work for, the two
perspectives that come with Eclipse are sufficient. This is due to the fact
that the EJB layer is very thin - all of the business logic is embodied in
plain Java classes used  by it. Further, the associated JUnit test cases are
constructed using mock objects so there is no need to have a server running
or a database connection to thoroughly flog the code. However, at this
point, all of the programmers are getting copies of WSAD IE, which is pretty
expensive on a per seat basis. We are reaching a point at which we need to
either buy a lot more seats (maybe downlevelling to Site Developer for most
of them) or find an alternative. It would be a trivial matter to download
Eclipse, but the license agreement which must be accepted exposes the
company to unlimited liability. Granted, the likelihood of there ever being
a suit is small, but the possibility is there nonetheless, and the legal
dept. won't sign off as a consequence. What I am seeking is a third-party
vendor that will bundle the Eclipse workbench and the JDK and indemnify us
contractually for a modest fee, so that we get the software tool without
risking the whole asset base.

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.

> > What we need is a lower-end tool for the programmers who are using
> > only the Java and Debug perspectives to write and test plain Java classes.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> a JDK and Eclipse, but tell them why they need be comfortable doing that kind of thing
> and I'll even show them how to use the IDE.
Gilbert Pilz - 27 Aug 2003 05:35 GMT
> (stuff deleted . . .) It would be a trivial matter to download
> Eclipse, but the license agreement which must be accepted exposes the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> contractually for a modest fee, so that we get the software tool without
> risking the whole asset base.

I'm sorry to be obtuse, but could you outline which parts of the Eclipse
license agreement you (or your legal department) are worried about? I'm
pushing to get Eclipse (more) widely adopted in my company and I'd like
to get to the bottom of this issue.

- gilbert


Free Magazines

Get these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...

Oracle MagazineNetwork ComputingComputer WorldBio-IT WorldeWeekInformation WeekInfosecurity
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.