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Java Forum / Tools / March 2004Apache http Server + Resin/Tomcat
I have seen that Resin or Tomcat can be used in conjunction with Apache HTTP server. Yet Resin is quite capable of serving HTTP on its own. What does Apache do that makes it worthwhile to horse around with two servers? -- Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary. I run heavy load production image-archive sites based on apache/tomcat and it pays off to put apache in front of tomcat to offload all the static content (thumbnails/images and such). So: I would do the apache/tomcat (or resin) duo if you want to run a site with some dynamic functionality and alot of static content (such as images & raw html pages). For an all-out dynamic site you might just as well run tomcat or resin standalone. > I have seen that Resin or Tomcat can be used in conjunction with > Apache HTTP server. Yet Resin is quite capable of serving HTTP on its [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming. > See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary. Bear in mind that current sites rely greatly on static content such as css files, JavaScript files and (planty of) images. I find it hard to believe that Tomcat or Resin will do better job than Apache. Also, don't you want to save the JVM's CPU and memory fo dymanic content rather than static one? I's suggest to do a small benchmark - see what is the porformance difference between the options (It would be also nice to hear about your impressions of the two settings). David > I run heavy load production image-archive sites based on apache/tomcat and > it pays off to put apache in front of tomcat to offload all the static [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming. >>See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary. > Bear in mind that current sites rely greatly on static content such as > css files, JavaScript files and (planty of) images. I find it hard to > believe that Tomcat or Resin will do better job than Apache. Nobody claimed that. The claim was in fact the other way round: Apache is better at serving static content. But you need Tomcat / Resin for the dynamic part if that is to be done in JSP / Servlet technology. > Also, don't > you want to save the JVM's CPU and memory fo dymanic content rather than > static one? Err, the CPU is the same as that of the Apache. :-) And memory overhead is not that much for static content (it's streamed). All in all IMHO Henrik is completely right to suggest to use the tandem only for heavy load sites. Tomcat / Resin are not that bad at serving static content; after all, that is mostly IO bound and that depends on the OS, disks and network connection. Same for Apache and Tomcat. > I's suggest to do a small benchmark - see what is the porformance > difference between the options (It would be also nice to hear about your > impressions of the two settings). It's always a good idea to do benchmarking to have concrete numbers for comparison. Note however that it is not too easy to simulate a high traffic web site. The benchmark itself can get complicated and expensive soon. Regards robert > David > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >>Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming. > >>See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary. > "David Rabinowitz" <dar@cs.huji.ac.il> schrieb im Newsbeitrag >>Also, don't >>you want to save the JVM's CPU and memory fo dymanic content rather than >>static one? > > Err, the CPU is the same as that of the Apache. :-) Actually there's no requirement that the two servers run on the same machine, let alone the same CPU. MB > > "David Rabinowitz" <dar@cs.huji.ac.il> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > >>Also, don't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Actually there's no requirement that the two servers run on the same > machine, let alone the same CPU. Oops, yeah that's true. Thanks for correcting that! robert >>Bear in mind that current sites rely greatly on static content such as >>css files, JavaScript files and (planty of) images. I find it hard to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > better at serving static content. But you need Tomcat / Resin for the > dynamic part if that is to be done in JSP / Servlet technology. As I see it, the claim was in the opinion that can drop Apache from the system. >>Also, don't >>you want to save the JVM's CPU and memory fo dymanic content rather than [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > after all, that is mostly IO bound and that depends on the OS, disks and > network connection. Same for Apache and Tomcat. Not exactly - Apache, written in C, will be faster than Java serving static content. Also, why waste a tomcat working thread (forgot to mention it earlier...) on static content? >>I's suggest to do a small benchmark - see what is the porformance >>difference between the options (It would be also nice to hear about your [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > traffic web site. The benchmark itself can get complicated and expensive > soon. So I guess we are all waiting anxiously ;-) Does anybody wants to peek the glove? David > As I see it, the claim was in the opinion that can drop Apache from the > system. The record is quite clear. He said "For an all-out dynamic site you might just as well run tomcat or resin standalone". Meaning that Apache cannot help you with dynamic java-based resources. There's nothing to argue with here; it's just plain true. MB >> As I see it, the claim was in the opinion that can drop Apache from >> the system. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cannot help you with dynamic java-based resources. There's nothing to > argue with here; it's just plain true. Also, from the Resin website (http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.0/install/httpd.xtp): > Resin provides a fast standalone web server. In our benchmarks, it serves static pages faster than Apache! (I have not independently evaluated this claim, nor ever used resin for that matter). MB > Not exactly - Apache, written in C, will be faster than Java serving > static content. Also, why waste a tomcat working thread (forgot to > mention it earlier...) on static content? If you're basing the speed issue on having been written in C, that's not really a good measurement. More depends on the networking and *how* the app was written, not which language it was written in. > >>Bear in mind that current sites rely greatly on static content such as > >>css files, JavaScript files and (planty of) images. I find it hard to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > As I see it, the claim was in the opinion that can drop Apache from the > system. ... if and only if the amount of static content served is considerable small compared to the dynamic content. That was the claim. I added that the crucial factor in serving static content is disk speed, the filesystem and network bandwidth - not so much the language or technology used to implement the server. > Not exactly - Apache, written in C, will be faster than Java serving > static content. Not necessarily (see above). > Also, why waste a tomcat working thread (forgot to > mention it earlier...) on static content? Why not? A tomcat thread is cheaper than a complete Apache process. robert >I have seen that Resin or Tomcat can be used in conjunction with >Apache HTTP server. Yet Resin is quite capable of serving HTTP on its >own. What does Apache do that makes it worthwhile to horse around >with two servers? What I meant by my original question is why is Apache so much better at handling static content than Resin that the hassle of intercommunication between the two pays off? What clever techniques does it use to handle static content so well? -- Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. 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