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Java Forum / First Aid / September 2005Java and IP addresses.
Two Java questions: a) I have noticed occasionally that on my taskbar (XP SP2) the Java icon appears. Presumably that is when the website I am connecting to is using Java. Would this icon ever NOT appear, when Java is being used by the website? b) Is there a way to tell if the website I am connecting to uses Java (such as looking at the source)? Thanks. > Two Java questions: > > a) I have noticed occasionally that on my taskbar (XP SP2) the Java icon > appears. Presumably that is when the website I am connecting to is > using Java. Would this icon ever NOT appear, when Java is being used by > the website? Probably, though Java desktop applications can cause the Java icon. > b) Is there a way to tell if the website I am connecting to uses Java > (such as looking at the source)? Yes. - Source. Do a search on '<applet', and '<object', applets should be refenced as one or the other. - Preferences. Switch Java off[1] then refresh the page. Is it different? To disable Java, you need to deselect / untick everything in the 'Java (Sun)' and 'Microsoft VM'[1] nodes. [1] <http://www.physci.org/jvmclean.jsp?pt=deselect>  SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "..When after all, it was you and me." The Rolling Stones 'Sympathy For The Devil' > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Thanks. I use Firefox, not IE so in that case I just clear the tick box for Java in the options menu. >- Preferences. Switch Java off[1] then refresh the page. > Is it different? Likely you will have to restart the browser after changing such options. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. >>- Preferences. Switch Java off[1] then refresh the page. >> Is it different? > > Likely you will have to restart the browser after changing such > options. Not in the browser to which I was referring (IE). You can actually change between VM's while IE is pointing to an applet page. A page refresh is all that is needed to see the change between VM's SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "Tell your Mama, tell your Pa. I'm gonna send you back to Arkansas.." Ray Charles 'What'd I Say' > You can actually change between VM's while IE is pointing to an > applet page. A page refresh is all that is needed to see the change > between VM's Really? I have JREs for 1.4 and 1.5, and both IE and Firefox only list 1.5 as available. I can't figure out how to swap them. Signaturemonique Ask smart questions, get good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >> You can actually change between VM's while IE is pointing to an >> applet page. A page refresh is all that is needed to see the change >> between VM's > > Really? I have JREs for 1.4 and 1.5, and both IE and Firefox only > list 1.5 as available. I can't figure out how to swap them. No. It is only IE, and only when IE has the ...other VM installed*. The consoles for the two VM's appear in different menus, so MS is making a clear distinction between them. * I have installations for a variety of 1.4 Java's, as well as 1.5, but I can only select between Java 1.5 and the MSVM. The MSVM may not be installed in your IE at all. After all that court business, MS stopped supplying the MSVM (thankfully). OTOH, access to an MSVM can be a handy tool for a developer to have, and there are still (I believe) suppliers of the 3809/3810 builds. ..including a certain Australian bank that I have been meaning to harangue, especially since the guy with whom I was 'liaising' has fallen awful quiet recently. [ wanders off, muttering softly.. ] SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "..I pick up all the pieces and make an island. Might even raise just a little sand" Jimi Hendrix 'Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)' > * I have installations for a variety of 1.4 Java's, as well as 1.5, > but I can only select between Java 1.5 and the MSVM. Drat. That's been my experience, too, and it's just ... not right. If I uninstall the 1.5 JRE, do you know if IE/Firefox will then recognize the 1.4? Need to be able to try both for testing ... Signaturemonique Ask smart questions, get good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >> * I have installations for a variety of 1.4 Java's, as well as 1.5, >> but I can only select between Java 1.5 and the MSVM. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If I uninstall the 1.5 JRE, do you know if IE/Firefox will then > recognize the 1.4? Need to be able to try both for testing ... Mail Copies To - Never.. ;-) Sorry Monique.. but *every* time I go to reply to one of your posts my news client pops up a helpful little message reminding me that you like 'Mail - Copies To - Never'. You are *the* only person with whom I have conversed on usenet that is *that* specific about it! It always surptises me, and always makes me grin. OK - I *got* the message. Now, what were we talking about? Oh yeah.. I'm afraid I cannot advise further about swapping 1.4/1.5, *but* an interesting strategy for *applets* is to put them on that little ...networky thing, the ..WWW, and ask someone with a browser/connection/right Java version to throw their browser at it. With a bit of smarts, you could enclose the test applet in an active JSP/Servlet that also has a Java version checker & reporter. With Applets (or anything that touches the internet), it pays to test in *as* *many* browser/VM/OS combinations as practical. I have seen code that worked in Sun 1.4 and 1.5 (in IE/Moz/Opera), worked in Symantec 1.1.5 (NN 4.8), but broke in the MSVM ..because the MSVM was the only VM fast enough to complete the init() prior to an image load required for paint(). I have seen applet placement techniques that worked perfectly in IE and Mozilla, old *and* new, but broke in Opera! A 'positive' result for an applet in 'IE 5' then raises the question 'which platform?' as IE 5 for Windows is a very different rendering engine/browser to IE 5 Mac. [ Applets can cause madness - beware! ;-) ] Oh, one final thought you might investigate re multi VM testing is ..installing different (older) versions of the Mozilla family browsers (even 1 NN, 1 Moz, and 1 FF) that you might then be able to a) get with older Java versions included b) will run alongside newer versions of that browser family, though perhaps one at a time(?). SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "Many times Iʼve lied, many times Iʼve listened, many times Iʼve wondered how much there is to know." Led Zeppelin 'Over The Hills And Far Away' >I'm afraid I cannot advise further about swapping 1.4/1.5, You can swap in the Control Panel | java, but that requires shutting down your browser and restarting. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. > Mail Copies To - Never.. ;-) > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > OK - I *got* the message. I didn't realize some news clients were so ... aggressive! I use gmane to post to some mailing lists via nntp, and even though many of them have express policies of keeping discourse in the group, people love to send direct emails. That's where that comes from. I don't know of a way to turn it off just for you =P Of course, the real problem people don't pay attention to the header anyway. For a while I tried setting my reply-to to null or something, but gmane refused to post my messages that way. Signaturemonique Ask smart questions, get good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .. >> ... but *every* time I go to reply to one >> of your posts my news client pops up a helpful little >> message reminding me that you like 'Mail - Copies To - Never'. ... >> OK - I *got* the message. > > I didn't realize some news clients were so ... aggressive! I like it[1]! It also warns me if.. - the poster requested 'emailTo' themselves (not that I have email set up for my news client in any case) - replying to an X-post to more than three groups - replying to an X-post without setting Follow-Ups - replying to any post to group(s) that are 'not defined' on my local ISP's news server (usually not big 8 groups) - replying to a post in one group, in which the *OP* set the Follow-Ups (usually to a 'troll' group) ..and possibly other things so bizarre that even I have not encountered them. [ Aside - I hope I tricked some people into thinking I was very observant, when commenting on such things. ;-) ] [1] While I say I 'like' my news client, I make a point not to *recommend* any specific news client, as there are aspects to every news clent I've tried thus far that I do not like, and I have never found a singular 'ideal' news client that I could recommend without reservation. The one I'm using comes close to that ideal, though. > I use gmane to post to some mailing lists via nntp, and even though > many of them have express policies of keeping discourse in the group, > people love to send direct emails. Ughhh.. Don't you hate that? (I don't mind someone hunting down my email to discuss something off-topic to this group, that they know I might be interested in, but most of my private contacts are noobs wanting email based tuition[2]. I shudder to think what sort of private email a person with an 'exotic' sounding name as yours might attract from posting in technical(?) mailing lists.. [2] mention 'fee by email - free by groups' and you might see 1 in 5 of them post in comp.lang.java.help, the rest vanish. >..That's where that comes from. I > don't know of a way to turn it off just for you =P LOL! Don't even put thought to it. If it bothered me so much, I'd try disabling it in my own client. But as I said, it always makes me grin. "Just say 'No'." It is a pity you have to be that specific, but I do understand. > Of course, the real problem people don't pay attention to the header > anyway. :-( I never even realised such things happened when using the news client that came with the OS (..guess). It is much more obvious when you have the dialogs popping up. >...For a while I tried setting my reply-to to null or something, > but gmane refused to post my messages that way. That is a pity. I value to be able to post with no email reply address, though I understand it is 'frowned upon'. BTW - from your sig. "Ask smart questions, get good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html" Love it. :-) That is great advice that I wish more posters heeded. It is linked from my FAQ, but perhaps not in as prominent a way as it might be. SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "..and now you do what they want ya', ..now you're under control" Rage Against the Machine 'Killing In The Name' > I like it[1]! It also warns me if.. > - the poster requested 'emailTo' themselves (not that I have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ..and possibly other things so bizarre that even I have > not encountered them. Mine actually warns me every time I want to post or follow up. And sometimes I actually do change my mind. It's a good reminder to keep the noise down. > (I don't mind someone hunting down my email to discuss > something off-topic to this group, that they know I might [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sounding name as yours might attract from posting in > technical(?) mailing lists.. Actually, that's not been a problem. The only questionable behavior I've experienced online is in games, and of course I don't use my real name there. And it has nothing to do with actually being female; a certain subgroup of people exhibits that sort of behavior to anyone wearing a female form. In technical fora, I think the typical response is more like, "Ooh, she's a female *and* she likes technical stuff. Let's play nice around her so that she sticks around." > BTW - from your sig. > "Ask smart questions, get good answers: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It is linked from my FAQ, but perhaps not in as > prominent a way as it might be. I try to follow the advice myself. I can't tell you how many times I've debugged a problem by trying to document it fully. It has a lot to do with the negative response to vague questions, I think. In almost every technical forum, posters that clearly haven't put enough effort into solving their own problems are either ignored or ridiculed. So when I mean to ask a question, I start writing out the explanation of what I *have* tried. Soon enough I hear voices in my head asking why I didn't try X or Y or Z before posting, so I try those. Often I figure out my problem without ever having to post. (I developed this technique primarily for debian-users.) When I've been in a hurry and posted a quick question without going through that process first, I've almost always regretted it, and I've almost never gotten useful help. Signaturemonique Ask smart questions, get good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html >> "Ask smart questions, get good answers: >> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html" .. > I try to follow the advice myself. ditto. >...I can't tell you how many times I've > debugged a problem by trying to document it fully. ..And, for the very same reasons! ... > try X or Y or Z before posting, so I try those. Often I figure out my > problem without ever having to post. Maybe.. in those situations we should make a post outlining the problem and fix, noting how it was arrived at. But then, I suspect if posters are not going to pick up the advice about 'smart quewstions' from sigs., FAQ's and more direct advice.. they are not going to pick it up from a single problem/solution post. :-( SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "It's a never ending battle, for a peace that's always torn.." Bob Dylan 'Shelter from the Storm' > Maybe.. in those situations we should make a post outlining > the problem and fix, noting how it was arrived at. I believe someone's been doing that. Don't remember the name of the poster, but the subject line was something along the lines of "How to read a file in Java?" and the body of the message were 4 or 5 different ways to do it. I think people misinterpreted the post as a question rather than as a solution, so they posted yet more ways to do it. I believe the poster was also criticized because (s)he stated controversial opinions as if they were fact (e.g. best practice is to use flash cards to memorize the API library). - Oliver >You can actually change between VM's while IE is >pointing to an applet page. A page refresh is all >that is needed to see the change between VM's Could you use that then to load a fresh version of an Applet into Sun's VM without a restart, by flipping vms and flipping back? SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. >>You can actually change between VM's while IE is >>pointing to an applet page. A page refresh is all >>that is needed to see the change between VM's > > Could you use that then to load a fresh version of an Applet into > Sun's VM without a restart, by flipping vms and flipping back? ..ummm. I'm not certain, but surely it is easier to open the console (whichever applies at the time) and flush the cache manually. Actually, I've usually found a Ctrl-F5 (force reload of page) does the trick for IE to flush the classes cached, when testing applets off the local file-system. Is it really that important to you, that you want me to specifically try it? SignatureAndrew Thompson physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info "At least you won't have time to be bored.." Midnight Oil 'Power & The Passion' >Is it really that important to you, that you want me to >specifically try it? I use Opera, and have not found away to flush its Applets other that shutting it down and restarting. It is a nuisance for debugging. If IE can do it, perhaps I will use that for debugging. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. > I use Opera, and have not found away to flush its Applets other that > shutting it down and restarting. It is a nuisance for debugging. > > If IE can do it, perhaps I will use that for debugging. Would a frameset with tiny applets from fifty different code bases do it? I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere code to cache the last fifty applet contexts or something. I don't have Java installed on my browsers to check it. Tom Hawtin SignatureUnemployed English Java programmer http://jroller.com/page/tackline/ >Would a frameset with tiny applets from fifty different code bases do >it? I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere code to cache the last fifty applet >contexts or something. I don't have Java installed on my browsers to >check it. I have been testing them lately in Eclipse which seems quite happy to even have a dozen DIFFERENT versions running at once. I still need a last minute dress rehearsal in the browser. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. >I have been testing them lately in Eclipse which seems quite happy to >even have a dozen DIFFERENT versions running at once. different versions of your Applet or Apps. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. >b) Is there a way to tell if the website I am connecting to uses Java >(such as looking at the source)? If you see <applet, you know Java is being used. Javascript may dynamically create such tags, so you would not see them in the source. The easiest way to tell is to configure the Java console on. Then whenever anyone uses Java, it will pop up. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/console.html There are also some butt-ugly tags <OBJECT and <EMBED that sometimes invoke Java. They are generic plug-in tags designed by a Satan worshipper. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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