about certificate

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KeeKee - 26 Aug 2009 14:52 GMT

I was told by many people that a Java or C++ certificate does not
prove anything.
Perhaps it is true that experience is much more import than a piece of
paper - certificate.
If you don't have very much experience, how do you prove that you know
them well.
I often did a lousy interview, I could not answer the questions well.
I know I can do the works – C++ and Java.

How are Java and C++ graded ? Are they graded by “pass” or “fail”
basis ?

I would like to have your opinions and/or suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

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Lew - 26 Aug 2009 15:04 GMT

> I was told by many people that a Java or C++ certificate does not
> prove anything.

I don't know about C++ certificates, but the Sun Java certificates do prove a
reasonable competence in the matter tested. They are rigorous exams and
worthy of respect. Your "many people" are mistaken.

> Perhaps it is true that experience is much more import than a piece of
> paper - certificate.

Experience without wisdom is like a moving automobile without a driver.

> If you don't have very much experience, how do you prove that you know
> them well.
> I often did a lousy interview, I could not answer the questions well.
> I know I can do the works – C++ and Java.

If you "know them well", why were you unable to answer the question?

Why do you think you can perform effectively as a programmer without knowing
the language well?

Even if you don't get a certificate, and it's true that you can get good
employment without one, you should study for the exam as if you planned to.
When I started doing that my knowledge of Java rose dramatically, as did the
quality of my code.

> How are Java and C++ graded ? Are they graded by “pass” or “fail”
> basis ?

Check out the web sites for certification, e.g., at java.sun.com, and read
what they tell you.

Sites like java.sun.com and <http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java> are
chock-full of rich information, as is <http://www.javapassion.com/>.
mindprod.com is another good source.

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Lew

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KeeKee - 26 Aug 2009 16:14 GMT

> > I was told by many people that a Java or C++ certificate does not
> > prove anything.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> --
> Lew

Hi Lew,

The information are quite useful. Thank you very much.
Cheer
KeeKee

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KeeKee - 26 Aug 2009 16:45 GMT

> > > I was told by many people that a Java or C++ certificate does not
> > > prove anything.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> Cheer
> KeeKee

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Roedy Green - 27 Aug 2009 01:01 GMT

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:52:03 -0700 (PDT), KeeKee
<chenkeekee@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>I was told by many people that a Java or C++ certificate does not
>prove anything.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>them well.
>I often did a lousy interview, I could not

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/certificate.html
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/signedapplet.html

A real certificate proves the author of the program is as claimed and
that the program has not been tampered with since the author created
the jar.

Signature

Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

"There is an evil which ought to be guarded against, in the indefinite accumulation of property,
from the capacity of holding it in perpetuity by... corporations.
The power of all corporations aught to be limited in this respect.
The growing wealth acquired by them never fails to be a source of abuses."
~ James Madison (born: 1751-03-16 died: 1836-06-28 at age: 85)

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Roedy Green - 27 Aug 2009 01:11 GMT

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:01:27 -0700, Roedy Green
<see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/certificate.html
>http://mindprod.com/jgloss/signedapplet.html
>
>A real certificate proves the author of the program is as claimed and
>that the program has not been tampered with since the author created
>the jar.

Oops, I see by "certificate" you meant what in my part of the world we
call a diploma or degree.

As someone who used to hire people I can tell you this.

You have a pile of resumes for a job perhaps 25 cm tall. Today it
would be even worse with mass electronic applications.

You have to read all this stuff, and whittle it down to some
contenders. Yours eyes glaze over. They all sound the same.

So you make up some, possibly arbitrary, rules just to get the pile
down. Education is a very easy way to discriminate.

Based on this experience I suggest:

1. try to get a job BEFORE it is posted. If you are lucky, the boss
would sooner hire a go-getter like you than face wading through days
of resumes and interviews with sweaty-palmed applicants, who look as
if your word means their execution. The process is stressful for
bosses too. They have to do it over and over.

2. Make yourself stand out. Take a risk. You will never succeed by
being 100% bland. You have to be the "best" in some way. You make turn
the boss off 50% of the time with your attempt at being memorable, but
you are still way ahead. Always hand-deliver your resume and include
a photo to help tie your visit to the resume.

3. Charm the secretary/receptionist. A small gift of a rose a small
box of fine chocolate will win her over to be your champion.

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