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Java Forum / General / May 2008Java IDE
What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? The one you know and like the best. Regards, Leonard  SignatureSimplicity is the ultimate sophistication. -- Leonardo da Vinci > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? FAQ If you use Google Groups to search this newsgroup for IDE you'll locate prior extensive discussion of this subject. I bet Roedy's website has a page on it, google for Java Roedy IDE SignatureRGB On May 14, 8:42 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@SpamWeary.foo> wrote: > > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > RGB Has anyone used Netbeans? jojo80011 <joekucera2002@gmail.com> wrote in news:38521f70-e887-4d09-9782- dcb9f1ade697@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > On May 14, 8:42 am, RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBr...@SpamWeary.foo> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Has anyone used Netbeans? Yes. I use Netbeans, and I like it. It's great! But, as usual,YMMV. > Has anyone used Netbeans? Estimated about 500000. And certainly several people in this forum. Arne > Has anyone used Netbeans? I use it for Java, and my boss uses it for PHP. I have always like dit, and he was pleasantly surprised. What I don't like is that PHP development is now (version 6.1) separate from Java, meaning you can't have both? (OT question) SignatureSabine Dinis Blochberger Op3racional www.op3racional.eu Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 11:11: >> Has anyone used Netbeans? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What I don't like is that PHP development is now (version 6.1) separate > from Java, meaning you can't have both? (OT question) No you can. Either download the full distrubution (which will include C/C++, Ruby, UML and JavaEE) or simply download the Java version and then install the PHP module through the plugin manager (Tools -> Plugins). I think due to an issue in the plugin manager, you cannot "upgrade" a PHP only distribution to include PHP, but I might be mistaken. Just check which plugins the plugin manager offers you in the PHP distribution. Thomas > Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 11:11: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > UML and JavaEE) or simply download the Java version and then install the > PHP module through the plugin manager (Tools -> Plugins). Exactly, that was how I had it before 6.1. No PHP plugin shows (in the available plugins catalog). Is it mushed into any of the Web/EE plugins? > I think due to an issue in the plugin manager, you cannot "upgrade" a > PHP only distribution to include PHP, but I might be mistaken. Just > check which plugins the plugin manager offers you in the PHP > distribution. Thanks. For now it's not an important issue luckily. SignatureSabine Dinis Blochberger Op3racional www.op3racional.eu Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 12:20: >> Either download the full distrubution (which will include C/C++, Ruby, >> UML and JavaEE) or simply download the Java version and then install the >> PHP module through the plugin manager (Tools -> Plugins). > > Exactly, that was how I had it before 6.1. No PHP plugin shows (in the > available plugins catalog). Is it mushed into any of the Web/EE plugins? Not that I am aware of When I go to Tools -> Plugins with my JavaEE distribution I can select the plugins: PHP Debugger PHP Samples PHP >> I think due to an issue in the plugin manager, you cannot "upgrade" a >> PHP only distribution to include PHP, but I might be mistaken. Just >> check which plugins the plugin manager offers you in the PHP >> distribution. >> > Thanks. For now it's not an important issue luckily. That should have been "a PHP only distribution to include Java" though Thomas > Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 12:20: > >> Either download the full distrubution (which will include C/C++, Ruby, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > PHP Samples > PHP Yeah, those aren't there. I found however this nugget: <http://wiki.netbeans.org/WhereDoIDownloadThePHPSupport> Basically I can't have it both, for now. > >> I think due to an issue in the plugin manager, you cannot "upgrade" a > >> PHP only distribution to include PHP, but I might be mistaken. Just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That should have been "a PHP only distribution to include Java" though I suppose. Although I like NetBeans, it is for Java, and it's Ok (and I prefer) to have things that don't necessarily mix* separated. * At least in my company we don't use server side Java. So PHP is a different realm here. SignatureSabine Dinis Blochberger Op3racional www.op3racional.eu Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 13:46: >> Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 12:20: >>>> Either download the full distrubution (which will include C/C++, Ruby, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Basically I can't have it both, for now. In my experience missing entries in the plugin manager are often caused by incorrect settings in the userdir (e.g. when upgrading from a beta to a release). Try to delete the following files from your userdir (after closing down the IDE of course) and try the plugin manager again afterwards: $USER_DIR\config\Preferences\org\netbeans\modules\autoupdate (whole directory) $USER_DIR\config\Preferences\org\netbeans\modules\autoupdate.properties (single file) For more information on the userdir: http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqWhatIsUserdir Regards Thomas > Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 13:46: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > For more information on the userdir: > http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqWhatIsUserdir Did that, still no plugins about PHP in the list. I can install NetBeans for PHP simultaneously, should I really need it. Thanks. SignatureSabine Dinis Blochberger Op3racional www.op3racional.eu Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 16.05.2008 11:24: >> Thomas Kellerer wrote: >> In my experience missing entries in the plugin manager are often caused [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Did that, still no plugins about PHP in the list. I can install NetBeans > for PHP simultaneously, should I really need it. Thanks. Very strange. If this really bugs you, you might want to post this problem to the NetBeans mailing list. Thomas >> Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 11:11: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> > Thanks. For now it's not an important issue luckily. NetBeans 6.1 claims in <http://www.netbeans.org/features/all.html> that is has "HTML, JavaScript, PHP, and CSS support". They also say in <http://www.netbeans.org/features/web/web-app.html> > Editor Support for PHP new! > Early Access Feature in NetBeans IDE 6.1 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > shortcuts and hypertext links. Use a global PHP include path for all projects > or customize it per project. and provide a link to <http://www.netbeans.org/kb/61/php/installing-and-configuring-required-software.html> This took all of five minutes to find starting at <http://www.netbeans.org/> clicking on the "Features" tab at the top of the page and looking for where they mention "PHP". I didn't go past the page I cited, assuming at that point that their link to the various downloads will be legit. Do please let us know how that all works, won't you? SignatureLew > >> Sabine Dinis Blochberger, 15.05.2008 11:11: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > and provide a link to > <http://www.netbeans.org/kb/61/php/installing-and-configuring-required-software.html> Yeah, they say to get the NetBeans for PHP IDE. I have installed the NetBeans JavaEE version (103MB). I suppose i can install the PHP version simultaneously. But that's not what I wanted. > This took all of five minutes to find starting at > <http://www.netbeans.org/> > clicking on the "Features" tab at the top of the page and looking for where > they mention "PHP". I didn't go past the page I cited, assuming at that point > that their link to the various downloads will be legit. I stared at that site a long time too, trying to find a download of the PHP plugins, for a "manual" install. > Do please let us know how that all works, won't you? Not how I expected, in that I would wind up with two NetBeans installed. Maybe that's on purpose. SignatureSabine Dinis Blochberger Op3racional www.op3racional.eu Lew wrote: >> Do please let us know how that all works, won't you? > Not how I expected, in that I would wind up with two NetBeans installed. > Maybe that's on purpose. I totally see what you mean. I bet dollars to doughnuts it has to do with the magic words "Early Access" in the PHP version. More dollars vs. doughnuts that that problem will go away as the PHP capability moves through beta to "RC" to full release. SignatureLew > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? He said "Jehovah"! On Wed, 14 May 2008 06:33:18 -0700 (PDT), jojo80011 <joekucera2002@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html Who is the best person for you to marry depends very much on you and your "budget". IDEs are similar. Happily you can take IDEs for an extended test drive before you decide. SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com > On Wed, 14 May 2008 06:33:18 -0700 (PDT), jojo80011 > <joekucera2002@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html Most stuff on your site is very helpful but I found the discussions in the table at the above link very inconsistent and not all that useful. They are also out of date, at least for Netbeans. I think each IDE needs to be examined against a set of features/behaviour whatever. Just a suggestion, it would be a lot of work. Lionel. > I think each IDE needs to be examined against a set of features/behaviour > whatever. Just a suggestion, it would be a lot of work. My observation is that IDEs vary little in feature set. What makes Eclipse so annoying for me and so glorious for others is the combination of the behaviors and the style. Editors have always been the most intimate of software tools. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war> SignatureLew > My observation is that IDEs vary little in feature set. I think they vary quite a bit in features, but that they do not vary much in the features that are sufficient for most people. Arne On 16 May 2008 19:08:06 +1100, Lionel van den Berg <lionelv_@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >Most stuff on your site is very helpful but I found the discussions in >the table at the above link very inconsistent and not all that useful. >They are also out of date, at least for Netbeans. > >I think each IDE needs to be examined against a set of features/behaviour >whatever. Just a suggestion, it would be a lot of work. If you are up for updating even some of the information, please email it. What is probably needed is something to compare the big three, Netbeans, Eclipse, Intellij to help someone decide which is the most likely candidate. Rate it for various tasks e.g. navigating, editing, visual gui design. Secondly, decide if BlueJ is actually the best for beginners or those with old machines. I added a new one the other da, FieldBird.. Why do people spend so much time reinventing the wheel (IDEs, SQL engines, frameworks) when there are so many tools unwritten entirely? see http://mindprod.com/project/projects.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com >>Most stuff on your site is very helpful but I found the discussions in >>the table at the above link very inconsistent and not all that useful. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you are up for updating even some of the information, please email > it. In that case I may well do, at least for Netbeans and Eclipse. I have seen a very good comparison between Eclipse and Netbeans at one stage, but I have no idea where it was or who did it. Lionel. > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? Hi, I use netbeans. A great IDE. It has all you need John Thanks to all of you for your input. Joe > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? IDEs are for the weak. Real programmers use the standard text editor and javac. And ed is the standard text editor. tom SignatureEd editor textorum probatissimus est -- Cicero, De officiis IV.7 I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. > > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Ed editor textorum probatissimus est -- Cicero, De officiis IV.7 > I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. Actually, a text editor and command prompt CAN be good. In my opinion, they're usually best when learning a new language, so as to get rid of most of the distractions and clutter an IDE would have. But since you asked for an IDE right away, you probably already know Java and know the difference between and IDE and a text editor / console. The "Best" IDE will depend on the type of applications you're developing. Do you need special plugins for some purpose that only one IDE has? What features of an IDE are more important than others? If time permits, try a few (Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, and more are probably listed on Roedy's website) and try build a simple app in each one. That might give you an idea how each one handles. I prefer the UI and behaviours of NetBeans over Eclipse, but Eclipse seems to have a much larger set of plugins. > Actually, a text editor and command prompt CAN be good. In my opinion, > they're usually best when learning a new language, so as to get rid of > most of the distractions and clutter an IDE would have. I agree. All developers should be able to develop using a text editor and command line build, because then they understand what their IDE is doing. And besides one can risk someday to be on a platform with no IDE. But if I have the choice I like to use an IDE, because I am a lazy bastard. Arne >> Actually, a text editor and command prompt CAN be good. In my opinion, >> they're usually best when learning a new language, so as to get rid of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But if I have the choice I like to use an IDE, because I am a lazy > bastard. I don't think it is lazy. IDE's speed up your development massively. Especially when refactoring. And of course I agree all projects should be able to work anywhere. I am sold on writing ant scripts and making ant the only requirement. Lionel. On Wed, 14 May 2008 11:00:05 -0700 (PDT), Lord Zoltar <lord.zoltar@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >Actually, a text editor and command prompt CAN be good. I still use a text editor for experiments, mainly because it comes up quickly and does not make a production of creating a new class or insisting it remain compilable for all time. The big attractions of the IntelliJ IDE for me are: 1. global safe rename. I am quite compulsive about naming things, and renaming to resolve ambiguities. I also sometimes develop with one set of short names then rename to a more formal set. It is the smartest rename I have yet used. 2. navigation. Find a definition. Find usages. Look up parms needed for a method invocation. The alpha list summary list of methods and vars 3. refactor, especially Extract method to keep making the code ever more encapsulated. 4. cookie cutter for get/set/constructor etc. It is not quite what I want. It does not generate the JavaDoc skeleton. 5. constant feedback, but not overwhelming feedback of syntax errors (unbalanced, undefined, unused). You don't have to compile to get clean syntax. 6. the code reformatter and rearranger. I have never seen anything with that degree of control to make my listing look exactly as I want them. I like it that I don't waste keystrokes formatting and that I can change my entire body of work's formatting in a keystroke. SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com > I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. You should have said! I'm ha-ha-only-serious, though. Personally, i can't stand IDEs, i just find they get in my way. I don't use ed, i do use a programmer's editor, but anything more sophisticated than that takes away more than it adds for me. Maybe i just haven't learned to use an IDE properly. tom >>> What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? >> >> IDEs are for the weak. Real programmers use the standard text editor and >> javac. >> >> And ed is the standard text editor. SignatureHit to death in the future head > I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. Then here's a constructive comment: There is no `best' IDE. By definition, such a measure is subjective. The reason I may find IDE X to work the best for me may be the same reason that you despise IDE X. Also, such a question invokes matters of the highest order: religion. It's essentially asking for a vi-versus-emacs debate, er, war. SignatureBeware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth > I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. Please do not top-post. SignatureLew >> I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. > > Please do not top-post. And by the way, the one who asks a smart-a.s question shouldn't complain. SignatureLew > I was looking for constructive comments, not smart-a.s answers. First, welcome to Usenet. You're gonna get those. Second, his "smart a.s" response is a typical joke to interject in IDE/editor discussions. Your question is so thinly worded that it just asked to be abused. How about a little background to your question so a more informed answer can be provided. Are you familiar with Java? What about other languages? Have you programmed in other IDEs like Visual Studio? Are you doing simple Java projects or are you going into a job with dozens or hundreds of developers and thousands of classes? Is the backing source control important to you? Will you be using frameworks? Do you have a favored keystroke set like vi or EMACS or Microsoft applications? If you're a pure novice just getting started, any one will do but the comment about text editors is also appropriate. - TJ > > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Ed editor textorum probatissimus est -- Cicero, De officiis IV.7 Bah! *Real* Programmers use butterflies! http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png >>> What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? >> IDEs are for the weak. Real programmers use the standard text editor and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png > Bah! *Real* Programmers use butterflies! > > http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png I thought real programmer used off-shore slave labor? Do butterflies work cheap? >> Bah! *Real* Programmers use butterflies! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Do butterflies work cheap? Butterflies are free. SignatureLew > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? Try a few and see what you prefer. Free ones include: Eclipse, NetBeans and JDeveloper. Or maybe the Eclipse clone Turbo JBuilder. And there are no cost reason not to try all of them. Arne >> What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And there are no cost reason not to try all of them. In all seriousness, I have yet to find Eclipse and its offspring anything but a royal PITA. Many people I know swear by them, but a typical scenario is like today, when my coworker told me that a particular problem I had in RAD 7 (an Eclipse progeny) was easily solvable. I just had to write a batch file to fix up the Eclipse project files. He really didn't see this as an issue with the IDE at all. On the upside, Eclipse is every bit as powerful and complete as its proponents say it is. They tell me I just have to get used to it, that things will get smoother as I get to know the product better. As I've only been using it just about every work day since late 2001, I guess I am being impatient. SignatureLew > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? hi jojo Its up to you.. as per my perspective Ecllipse is best Thanks Alok On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:22:34 -0700 (PDT), Neo Pantain <aloksguha@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > Its up to you.. as per my perspective Ecllipse is best All of us have tried several IDEs, and settled on one, then learned its quirks. Using any other is like eating with your left hand. In the meantime, all IDEs improved. You tend to compare your IDE NOW, with the other IDE, you only partly learned THEN. So there is a great tendency to overvalue your current IDE. We need an objective experiment. We need a crop of newbies. Each newbie is given a project and an IDE, at the end of 2 weeks they drop that project, start another with a different IDE. We measure how far each newbie got with each IDE, and do some stats. This at least would give you a measure of the learning curve. I wonder if some CS department at a University could arrange such a test. SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com > What is the best IDE to use when developing Java applications? For no reason that I can explain I tend to use Eclipse (Europa) for non-J2EE apps, and NetBeans (6.0) for J2EE apps. Well, there probably is a reason - I found Netbeans very easy to set up for J2EE and RoR, and didn't put the effort into doing the same for Eclipse. Both of them, however, are nice IDEs, so I won't recommend one over the other. I've used IntelliJ in the past (through company license seats) and found it very good also. Answer being, any of the major IDEs are probably perfectly OK. You'd have to look at what your specialized needs are. There are a lot of online tutorials out there for doing X in IDE Y, so they are a decent guide to what IDE might be best for you. AHS Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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