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Java Forum / General / April 2008

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Java I/O Project

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Chase Preuninger - 06 Apr 2008 02:03 GMT
I am board and want to do something with Java I/O (networking
included). Any Ideas???
Jeff Higgins - 06 Apr 2008 03:24 GMT
>I am board and want to do something with Java I/O (networking
> included). Any Ideas???

Sure.
Work harder on your English spelling and grammar.

Roedy Green's Canadian Mind Products site has many
suggestions for Java projects,

<http://mindprod.com/projects/projects.html>

unfortunatly getting a 404 error at the moment.
Roedy Green - 06 Apr 2008 15:19 GMT
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 22:24:07 -0400, "Jeff Higgins"
<oohiggins@yahoo.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

> <http://mindprod.com/projects/projects.html>

that should read http://mindprod.com/project/projects.htm
Signature


Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Jeff Higgins - 07 Apr 2008 00:03 GMT
>>I am board and want to do something with Java I/O (networking
>> included). Any Ideas???
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> unfortunatly getting a 404 error at the moment.

Please keep the discussion on comp.lang.java.programmer.

--- Chase Preuninger <chasepreuninger@gmail.com> wrote:

> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 05:05:59 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: Java I/O Project
> From: Chase Preuninger <chasepreuninger@gmail.com>
> To: Jeff Higgins
>
> It looks like just mindprod.com is some flower site

Flowers are just a bonus.

Work harder on your English spelling and grammar.
Roedy Green - 07 Apr 2008 06:27 GMT
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:03:10 -0400, "Jeff Higgins"
<oohiggins@yahoo.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>> It looks like just mindprod.com is some flower site

Granted  mindprod.com is an eclectic site which covers buying computer
equipment, gay rights,  the environment, human rights, animal rights,
politics , ethics and religion. However, the Java glossary section of
it is one of the largest sources of lore on Java programming you will
find outside the Sun docs.  I don't try to tell you everything, just
the basics and the surprises.  I aim to get a newbie up to speed as
fast as possible, where they can read the JavaDocs without feeling
overwhelmed.

Every day I change the image of the day on the home page. It is
usually some plant, animal or landscape celebrating the diversity and
beauty of life on earth.  If you click it, it will take you to art.com
where you can buy it as a photographic print, optionally framed.

You can see the images I have used in past at
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/artcom.html
and
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/artcomextras.html

Today's image of canola celebrates the legal victory of  Percy
Schmeiser, an Alberta canola  farmer who was harassed outrageously by
Monsanto.  Monsanto sued _him_ when pollen from their genetically
modified fields contaminated his organic fields destroying his strains
developed over decades.

Monsanto is a global bully.  I hope something terrible happens to
them. They stole the entire plant genome of Iraq and now force
penniless farmers there to buy their terminator gene seeds.
Signature


Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Roedy Green - 06 Apr 2008 05:02 GMT
On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Chase Preuninger
<chasepreuninger@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

>I am board and want to do something with Java I/O (networking
>included). Any Ideas???
see http://mindprod.com/project/projects.html

I think you mean "bored".
Signature


Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Chase Preuninger - 06 Apr 2008 13:04 GMT
Spelling and grammar have never been my strong point.
Roedy Green - 06 Apr 2008 15:32 GMT
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 05:04:16 -0700 (PDT), Chase Preuninger
<chasepreuninger@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

>Spelling and grammar have never been my strong point.

Programmers tend to be proud of poor spelling and grammar. They think
of those skills as feminine or frivolous.  However, they are necessary
skills for programmers because:

1. computer languages require perfect, or at least consistent
spelling.

2. on a team, you will drive people nuts if you don't use properly
spelled variable names because they won't be able to type them
correctly.

3. computer languages require perfect grammar.

4. Computer programs tend to do subtle things.  You need to be able to
explain to other programmers what they are in the comments.. You can't
get away with shorthand that only you can understand.

5. If you are asking for help, and you make a large number of errors
in your grammar or spelling, it may be taken as disrespectful.
Further, you will may be perceived as too stupid to bother with.
I get emails from soldiers with hundreds of spelling and grammatical
errors.  I can't help but feel contempt for these people even before
they start attempting to justify why they kill children.
see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/feedback/peace.html

6. One way of looking at it is not that your spelling and grammar
skills are non-existent, but that you speak a private dialect that
nobody else understands.  You are quite likely perfectly accurate in
applying its unwritten rules of spelling and grammar.  I recall my 3
younger sisters devised a private language they used prior to entering
school.  I was worried no one would understand them at all when they
reached school age. Even I understood only a part of it. However, it
took only a month or two once they entered school to learn standard
English.

Signature

Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Lew - 06 Apr 2008 15:45 GMT
Chase Preuninger said :
>> Spelling and grammar have never been my strong point.

> Programmers tend to be proud of poor spelling and grammar. They think
> of those skills as feminine or frivolous.  However, they are necessary
> skills for programmers because:
>
> 1. computer languages require perfect, or at least consistent
> spelling.

and several more good points.  On top of all those, being careless about
spelling builds bad habits in a profession that demands spelling perfection
(or at least consistency).  Justifying that carelessness (especially with a
justification as weak as, "I make errors because I'm not good at not making
errors") is another bad habit.  Working on spelling, at least when discussing
programming matters, and acknowledging one's errors without attempting to
justify them are good disciplines for the mind.

Signature

Lew

Roedy Green - 06 Apr 2008 16:08 GMT
>and several more good points.  On top of all those, being careless about
>spelling builds bad habits in a profession that demands spelling perfection
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>programming matters, and acknowledging one's errors without attempting to
>justify them are good disciplines for the mind.

Any decent newsreader will have a spell checker.  see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/newsreader.html

You then have no excuse for a post containing non-existent words.
Granted, it is still possible to write "your" for "you're", or "that"
for "than".  

When you don't use the spell checker you are broadcasting the hidden
message "My time is infinitely valuable. Yours is worthless."  This is
hardly the best attitude to use for begging free help.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/newsgroup.html
Signature


Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

David Segall - 06 Apr 2008 17:42 GMT
>On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 05:04:16 -0700 (PDT), Chase Preuninger
><chasepreuninger@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>spelled variable names because they won't be able to type them
>correctly.
Agreed but refactoring solves this problem.

>3. computer languages require perfect grammar.
They do, and they tell you immediately if it is incorrect.

>4. Computer programs tend to do subtle things.  You need to be able to
>explain to other programmers what they are in the comments.. You can't
>get away with shorthand that only you can understand.
True, but his posts were easily understood.

>5. If you are asking for help, and you make a large number of errors
>in your grammar or spelling, it may be taken as disrespectful.
>Further, you will may be perceived as too stupid to bother with.
>I get emails from soldiers with hundreds of spelling and grammatical
>errors.  I can't help but feel contempt for these people even before
>they start attempting to justify why they kill children.
This is because spelling, grammar and your speaking voice are all used
to reinforce a social class structure. It is assumed that someone with
an Irish or North American accent is inferior to someone with an
Oxford accent. Poor grammar or spelling is another sign that a person
was brought up in an inferior social class.

Your web site indicates that you are a compassionate person. By all
means judge your emails on their content but try to resist judging
them by their social class and that means ignoring grammatical and
spelling errors.
Lew - 06 Apr 2008 18:09 GMT
> Your web site indicates that you are a compassionate person. By all
> means judge your emails on their content but try to resist judging
> them by their social class and that means ignoring grammatical and
> spelling errors.

I agree that that is legitimate for general social situations, but in a
newsgroup that promotes professionalism and enhanced competency in computer
programming it's useful to suggest increased discipline in these areas.  Some
attention to grammar and spelling is necessary just to be professional; simply
saying, "I'm bad at that" and insisting on some sort of demagogic "let's all
just be social equals" fooferol doesn't engender any kind of professional
growth.  Rigor is an essential part of the programming profession, so please
do not justify intellectual laziness.

Signature

Lew

Martin Gregorie - 06 Apr 2008 20:30 GMT
>> Your web site indicates that you are a compassionate person. By all
>> means judge your emails on their content but try to resist judging them
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> part of the programming profession, so please do not justify
> intellectual laziness.

I've seen comments in several places and at several times that a *good*
programmer also tends to be particular about spelling and grammar as well
as meticulous in their use of language. I've read enough well-crafted code
and accurate, well written system specifications to believe this to be
true.

Signature

martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org       | Zappa fan & glider pilot

Arne Vajhøj - 06 Apr 2008 21:06 GMT
> I've seen comments in several places and at several times that a *good*
> programmer also tends to be particular about spelling and grammar as well
> as meticulous in their use of language. I've read enough well-crafted code
> and accurate, well written system specifications to believe this to be
> true.

Could you demonstrate your spelling and grammar skills by
writing the above in correct danish ?

Arne
Martin Gregorie - 06 Apr 2008 21:14 GMT
>> I've seen comments in several places and at several times that a *good*
>> programmer also tends to be particular about spelling and grammar as well
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Could you demonstrate your spelling and grammar skills by
> writing the above in correct danish ?

Not a chance! I can't even order a beer in Danish despite spending a week
in Hilleroed with visits to Ringsted and Copenhavn. That was a VERY
long time ago but good memories linger on.

Signature

martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org       | Zappa fan & glider pilot

Arne Vajhøj - 06 Apr 2008 21:29 GMT
>>> I've seen comments in several places and at several times that a *good*
>>> programmer also tends to be particular about spelling and grammar as well
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> in Hilleroed with visits to Ringsted and Copenhavn. That was a VERY
> long time ago but good memories linger on.

"En øl, tak"

should do that.

:-)

(now you just need to figure out how to pronounce that ...)

My point was that English is not the native language for everyone
and you should not expect perfect spelling and grammar from everyone.

Arne
Martin Gregorie - 08 Apr 2008 01:40 GMT
>>>> I've seen comments in several places and at several times that a
>>>> *good* programmer also tends to be particular about spelling and
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> (now you just need to figure out how to pronounce that ...)

My experience is that Danish is hard to learn on a visit because you Danes
insist on speaking such good English to native English speakers.

> My point was that English is not the native language for everyone and
> you should not expect perfect spelling and grammar from everyone.

The context, as I saw it anyway, was one of sloppy spelling/ grammar/
language usage by a native speaker of any language.

I don't believe I mentioned any language in particular. Anyway, my guess
is that what I wrote would apply equally to any professional programmer
working in his native language.

Signature

martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org       | Zappa fan & glider pilot

Roedy Green - 08 Apr 2008 03:12 GMT
On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 01:40:51 +0100, Martin Gregorie
<martin@see.sig.for.address> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>My experience is that Danish is hard to learn on a visit because you Danes
>insist on speaking such good English to native English speakers.

When I visited the Netherlands I found only one person who did not
speak English, but he was able to speak enough English to clearly
explain that.  It seemed so odd a person who could pronounce English
so well did not speak it.
Signature


Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Martin Gregorie - 09 Apr 2008 01:18 GMT
> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 01:40:51 +0100, Martin Gregorie
> <martin@see.sig.for.address> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> that.  It seemed so odd a person who could pronounce English so well did
> not speak it.

I've had that explained to me as "nobody else speaks Dutch, so we have to
speak other languages".

Most Dutch speak good English, so much so that often seen the following: a
set of British lads are standing chatting when some Dutch friends come
over and join in. The conversation stays in English as people come and go.
Eventually the last Briton leaves the group. Almost anywhere else this
would signal an instant switch to their native tongue but not in Holland:
there they're equally likely to go on speaking English.

Signature

martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org       | Zappa fan & glider pilot

Mike  Schilling - 09 Apr 2008 01:42 GMT
>> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 01:40:51 +0100, Martin Gregorie
>> <martin@see.sig.for.address> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> would signal an instant switch to their native tongue but not in Holland:
> there they're equally likely to go on speaking English.

Have I told this story here?  I was walking in Amstedam once, unable to find
the Rembrandt museum, and stopped a passerby for help.  "Excuse me, do you
speak English?" I began politely, only to be met with an irate "Of course I
do! I went to school!"
Roedy Green - 07 Apr 2008 06:14 GMT
>>2. on a team, you will drive people nuts if you don't use properly
>>spelled variable names because they won't be able to type them
>>correctly.
>Agreed but refactoring solves this problem.

Ideally you have egoless programmers who are happy when somebody
corrects spelling errors.  However, in the real world I think the
other type are more common, the ones who hit the roof when you modify
"their" code and "their" spelling.  After all, when you change the
spelling it makes it hard for THEM to remember variable names.

I had a boss who tried hard to drive in the notion of egoless
progamming by demanding it be impossible to tell who wrote the code.
By that he really meant that all code should look identical to his,
including the finest details of style.

Signature

Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Roedy Green - 06 Apr 2008 16:44 GMT
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 05:04:16 -0700 (PDT), Chase Preuninger
<chasepreuninger@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :

>Spelling and grammar have never been my strong point.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/spelling.html
Signature


Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com



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