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Java Forum / General / March 2008

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All the spams are comming from China

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Sanny - 21 Mar 2008 11:43 GMT
All these products for sale. I found these spammers are all selling
chinese products.

I think in china there is no spamming rule???
Christian - 21 Mar 2008 14:52 GMT
Sanny schrieb:
> All these products for sale. I found these spammers are all selling
> chinese products.
>
> I think in china there is no spamming rule???

Or its from Russian Bussiness Network... A network whhchs price for an
IP address is proportional to the number of complaints they get.. though
they won't kick you no matter for porn.. spamming... childporn... or
what ever..

Here a little Howto for making money with spam:
1. Get a botnet / Rent one  (lame: rent stormworm ,  cool: Program a
cryptovirus(costs you a lot of time but they have the benefit that they
can't be detected by virus scanners ))

2. Choose a Company .. that sells cheap stuff people might buy ..
(Viagra, Plastic toys  whatever..)  !!china has lots of these!!
3. Buy shares of this company
4. Advertise this company with Spam created by your Botnet.
5. Sell the shares when they went up because lots of people bought stuff
of that company..
6. Don't get caught.

Some further reason for lots of spam from china is also that chinese
servers are in general not secured to the standards of Europe or North
America.. so they can be more easily misused.

Christian
Mike Schilling - 21 Mar 2008 17:10 GMT
> All these products for sale. I found these spammers are all selling
> chinese products.
>
> I think in china there is no spamming rule???

There's no spamming "rule" anywhere; the only entity that might
enforce one is the ISP the spam is posted through, which in the case
is good old American Google Groups.  I've sent mail to
groups-abuse@google.com, and it wouldn't hurt if other people do the
same.  Not saying it will help, either.
Arne Vajhøj - 24 Mar 2008 03:00 GMT
>> All these products for sale. I found these spammers are all selling
>> chinese products.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> groups-abuse@google.com, and it wouldn't hurt if other people do the
> same.  Not saying it will help, either.

Many countries has laws against spam.

But usually the police prioritize murder, robbery etc. over
spam mails.

So complaint to the ISP is probably the most efficient.

Arne
Mark Space - 24 Mar 2008 03:06 GMT
> Many countries has laws against spam.
>
> But usually the police prioritize murder, robbery etc. over
> spam mails.

There is international law too, which allows people who break the law in
one country to be deported to that country for prosecution.

While I agree that there are many things more important than spamming, I
do agree with Sanny's sentiment and I wish there was more prosecution of
spammers.
Christian - 24 Mar 2008 17:41 GMT
Mark Space schrieb:

>> Many countries has laws against spam.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> do agree with Sanny's sentiment and I wish there was more prosecution of
> spammers.

Spam is more a protocol problem ... Email is like tcp from a time when
no one could think of anyone else that honorable scientists would use
that technique.
Also default encryption was not implemented as the onlyth one who could
read the emails were the honorable operators.
Alike problems we have with any major protocol used in the internet
dating from before 1990 ...

Never expect politicians do the job that IT folks could do better.. you
will only be disappointed.

What we really need imho is an update plan to get rid of outdated protocols.
Mark Space - 24 Mar 2008 20:00 GMT
> What we really need imho is an update plan to get rid of outdated
> protocols.

While this is true, any protocol or system can be hacked.

I understand what you are trying to say.  I'm merely proffering the
additional guideline:  Any required human activity must be enforced with
laws.  Otherwise people simply won't do it.

Spamming is a lot like shoplifting.  People do it because it's easy.
While any individual act of shoplifting is small and rarely involves
serious crime like murder, collectively it hurts a lot, and merchants
complain.

The online community needs to complain better to get attention of their
elected representatives.
Jeff Higgins - 24 Mar 2008 20:46 GMT
>> What we really need imho is an update plan to get rid of outdated
>> protocols.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> The online community needs to complain better to get attention of their
> elected representatives.

Yea, just what we need. Another law.
Jeff Higgins - 24 Mar 2008 20:49 GMT
>>> What we really need imho is an update plan to get rid of outdated
>>> protocols.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Yea, just what we need. Another law.

What do you propose for the penalty for repling to spam?
Mark Space - 24 Mar 2008 22:03 GMT
>> Yea, just what we need. Another law.
>>
> What do you propose for the penalty for repling to spam?

You mean just once? Or twice in a row? ;-)

I think the beneficiary of spam should be made responsible for the spam
it self.  You can't always find the spammer, but you can always find who
hired him, because he's advertising right there in the spam.

Since most are overseas, the state department will have to be involved.
 (US courts can indict foreign businesses and people.) But the penalty
needs only be a couple of days in jail and a civil fine for the first
offense.  As soon as it starts to be enforced (a few folks go to jail)
those paying for the spammers will drop right off the map.
Christian - 25 Mar 2008 02:08 GMT
Mark Space schrieb:

>>> Yea, just what we need. Another law.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> it self.  You can't always find the spammer, but you can always find who
> hired him, because he's advertising right there in the spam.

see again my guide to get Rich by spamming point 3 -5 :
3. Buy shares of this company
4. Advertise this company with Spam created by your Botnet.
5. Sell the shares when they went up because lots of people bought stuff
of that company..

> Since most are overseas, the state department will have to be involved.
>  (US courts can indict foreign businesses and people.) But the penalty
can't?
> needs only be a couple of days in jail and a civil fine for the first
> offense.  As soon as it starts to be enforced (a few folks go to jail)
> those paying for the spammers will drop right off the map.

well see above.. you don't get the people behind it ... on the other
side that would be a good  trick to get competitors out of bussiness.
thufir - 29 Mar 2008 00:39 GMT
> I think the beneficiary of spam should be made responsible for the spam
> it self.  You can't always find the spammer, but you can always find who
> hired him, because he's advertising right there in the spam.

However, there's intent.  The person who hired the spammer may have
received spam advertising the spammers services, believed the lied, and,
with no malice, hired the spammer.  The person who hired the spammer
might have, in fact, hired another party who then hired the spammer.

Sometimes I see reputable companies -- I don't think they'd knowingly
participate.

-Thufir
Logan Shaw - 25 Mar 2008 05:23 GMT
> Mark Space schrieb:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Also default encryption was not implemented as the onlyth one who could
> read the emails were the honorable operators.

IMHO, spam is not a protocol problem.  There are, to be sure, some
issues with SMTP's design, but you might be surprised to learn that
SMTP can now and does often run over TLS, so encryption is there,
and with systems like domainkeys, servers' identities can be verified
as well.

But the real problem is not encryption.  The real problem is the
set of requirements for e-mail.  E-mail has the following features,
none of which does anyone want to give up:

1.  Delivery costs are unmetered.
2.  I can receive an e-mail from someone who I have not previously
    contacted electronically.

#1 is a requirement for any sort of mass mailing.  And it is not
only for-profit corporations that do a lot of bulk mailing; there
are plenty of internet communities that do bulk mailing, and
IMHO should be able to continue to do so.  For example, mailing
lists, or web sites that send messages out when people click the
"forgot my password" link.

#2 is a requirement if you ever want to meet someone in the real
world, give them your e-mail address, and be able to receive a
message they give you.  You might want to do that if you put your
e-mail address on a business card, or write it on a piece of paper
and hand it to some cute MOTAS you meet somewhere, or if you want
to go to a concert and write it on the artist's sign-up sheet for
info on when their next tour is.

When you put requirement #1 and #2 together, the combination
implies spam.

I hate spam, but not enough to give up either #1 or #2.  E-mail
is valuable partly because of the free flow of information that
is possible.

  - Logan

P.S.:  Note that you could actually achieve requirements #1 and #2
       by requiring everyone to have a verifiable identity.  But
       then what organization controls who can and cannot get an
       identity and vouches for those who do have one?  It would
       have to be an organization that can meet the needs of (and
       safeguard the interests of) everyone on the planet.  A web
       of trust could be employed, but now you're talking about a
       fairly high-maintenance solution, and most people don't want
       to worry with signing others' keys and stuff like that.
Logan Shaw - 22 Mar 2008 18:07 GMT
> All these products for sale. I found these spammers are all selling
> chinese products.
>
> I think in china there is no spamming rule???

Why would that matter?  In the US there is a "spamming rule", but
the spammers, being dishonest and antisocial by nature (else, why
would they send spam?), break it and send spam anyway.

  - Logan
derek - 25 Mar 2008 20:22 GMT
> All these products for sale. I found these spammers are all selling
> chinese products.
> I think in china there is no spamming rule???

i think you are correct.
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