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Java Forum / General / March 2008JAI performance
We build a system that uses JAI (Java Advanced Imaging) for image processing. It includes advanced image operations and interaction on large (~10Mb) images. Project success depends on performance, so the client is prepared to invest in high-end hardware in order to get the best possible performance. So the question is: Which hardware parameters would actually improve such a program, and to which extent? (#cores, amount of memory, graphics card technology etc.). Specific suggestions and experiences would be quite helpful. Thanks. > We build a system that uses JAI (Java Advanced Imaging) > for image processing. It includes advanced image operations [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. Jacob: First off, I hate to be the bearer of bads news. Next, let me tell you that other than James Gosling, there is no bigger fan of Java than yours truly. I know I keep on repeating myself but there are some things that must NOT be written in Java. Heavy duty image processing and OCR are some of those. First advice: for that size of images, avoid JAI like the plague. I wrote an application which handles TIFF files much smaller than yours. They are monochrome, sampled at 600dpi and their size is about 4 megs. It took me years to finally approach the level of performance that I am more or less satisfied with, which I achieved rewriting the whole thing in C++. I researched the most efficient methods for resizing (do you need resizing and/or resampling? Oh, boy, are you in trouble), I had to use specialized graphics libraries and code critical parts in assembly language (*) but the current performance still keeps me wanting more. -Ramon (*) and yet the application will run on Mac, Solaris, Linux and Windows with a simple recompile. > First off, I hate to be the bearer of bads news. Next, let me tell you > that other than James Gosling, there is no bigger fan of Java than [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > critical parts in assembly language (*) but the current performance > still keeps me wanting more. Thanks, this is quite useful. I might have good reasons to keep this in Java, so in case my JAI implementation is "good enough", my original question still applys: Can I speed things by choosing specific hardware? Then: Are there Java alternatives to JAI that might perform better, or is the (lack of) image processing performance inherently related to the existance of the VM? If I choose an alternative route, say C++/Qt, is there any specific suggestins regarding open source image libraries that I should look at? Thanks. > > First off, I hate to be the bearer of bads news. Next, let me tell you > > that other than James Gosling, there is no bigger fan of Java than [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks, this is quite useful. You are welcome. You will find that people in Java newsgroups are much more friendly and eager to help than in C++ newsgroups (and I am talking from the viewpoint of *recipient* of advice and plenty of useful help). I blame this sad situation on the destruction that Microsoft made on the C++ language. Fortunately their attempted destruction of Java was derailed just in time. The victims of this debacle -a tragedy, really- usually hang out comp.lang.c++. They seem to have deep war wounds and are very asocial. Anywho... let's leave politics aside. > I might have good reasons to keep this in Java, so in case my > JAI implementation is "good enough", my original question still > applys: Can I speed things by choosing specific hardware? I do not have any specifics, but keep in mind that even if you somehow manage to buy hardware that will be available in 2012, the performance gains from not using Java will be far superior. I tried to run my application on hardware with plenty of horsepower, and still was painfully slow. If your app is ready, just borrow the most powerful PC you can get, and see it for yourself. That's what I did. > Then: Are there Java alternatives to JAI that might perform better, > or is the (lack of) image processing performance inherently related > to the existence of the VM? You still have one way of eating your cake and eating it, too. You may keep all the non-critical (in terms of raw performance) code in Java- land :-) and use JNI which is a bridge to jump back and forth between JRE and native code. I went that route and found it confusing and inelegant, so I decided to take the plunge to a full C++ implementation. This approach works but you will obviously need a programmer who is very competent in both Java and C++. Additionally this solution will still be slower than pure C++ because of the bridge overhead, and the fact that JNI may be inside a critical loop. How about this: you go this route initially, evaluate performance and decide whether it is acceptable. You may also try compiled Java. I have no experience with it, but logic dictates that it should be much (?) faster. > If I choose an alternative route, say C++/Qt, is there any specific > suggestins regarding open source image libraries that I should look > at? There are basically 3 GUI toolkits for multi-platform development: - http://www.gtk.org - http://www.wxwidgets.org - http://trolltech.com The first one didn't give me a warm feeling fuzzy based on the fact the a *graphical* toolkit didn't even have a decent web page until now. Perhaps I am being too harsh on the fine folks at GNU, to whom we all owe so much. The last one comes with a big caveat, because it is semi commercial (they were just acquired by Nokia). The free version can only be used to develop FOSS software!. This is as if anything written in gcc would have to be open source. This toolkit has been chosen by HP, Google and Adobe among others. wxWidgets is by far the one that boasts a larger pool of developers available, and it is growing like wildfire. You will get plenty of help here: http://wxforum.shadonet.com/ They even have a list of talent for hire. > Thanks. You are quite welcome. -Ramon > wxWidgets is by far the one that boasts a larger pool of developers > available, and it is growing like wildfire. You will get plenty of > help here: > http://wxforum.shadonet.com/ > > They even have a list of talent for hire. http://www.wxwidgets.org/support/support.htm -RFH >> First off, I hate to be the bearer of bads news. Next, let me tell you >> that other than James Gosling, there is no bigger fan of Java than [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Thanks. The people in the JAI forum on java.net are usually quite helpful http://forums.java.net/jive/category.jspa?categoryID=53 Mark Thornton > We build a system that uses JAI (Java Advanced Imaging) > for image processing. It includes advanced image operations [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks. Jacob: You and I are facing the same problem, and perhaps there is room for cooperation. I have some important tips for you. Could you please drop me a line to: ramon at patriot dot net? -Ramon Jacob wrote: >> We build a system that uses JAI (Java Advanced Imaging) >> for image processing. It includes advanced image operations [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> technology etc.). Specific suggestions and experiences would be >> quite helpful. > You and I are facing the same problem, and perhaps there is room for > cooperation. I have some important tips for you. Could you please drop > me a line to: ramon at patriot dot net? Could you please read that note to the entire class? It is rather rude to promise private knowledge on a public forum, when there could be many people reading this on tenterhooks looking for the same answers. We're not asking for proprietary secrets, but sharing hints based on experience are part of what this Usenet forum is all about.  SignatureLew > Jacob wrote: > >> We build a system that uses JAI (Java Advanced Imaging) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > cooperation. I have some important tips for you. Could you please drop > > me a line to: ramon at patriot dot net? > Could you please read that note to the entire class? I already did. > It is rather rude to promise private knowledge on a public forum, when there > could be many people reading this on tenterhooks looking for the same answers. The offer is valid to anyone who is struggling to process huge files on the screen. Just drop me a note to ramon at patriot dot net. It involves sharing costs on hiring expert personnel who have already solved that particular problem. > We're not asking for proprietary secrets, but sharing hints based on > experience are part of what this Usenet forum is all about. I gave a lot more than hints, based in a lot of sweat, blood and tears. I just want to make absolutely sure that there is no conflict of interests between the OP, myself and some information that doesn't belong to me, and I am not at liberty to disclose (I think). -RFH >Project success depends on performance, so the client is prepared >to invest in high-end hardware in order to get the best possible >performance. I have not used this, but it might give you an extra boost: http://imagero.com/ SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. 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