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Java Forum / General / December 2007Understanding some Java basics
Hi experts, I'm a bit familiar to Java and i want to begin programming under Java with a good beginner's resource but there are some confusions in my mind: 1-I know Java applications cannot be run as an executable file, there must be a interpreter needed, what's the most convenient way to run and show my projects under computer enviroment? Applet-like class files inside browsers or mobile emulators? Or JAR archives? 2-I want to learn basics for developing applications for mobile phones(like modern Nokia phones) and i learnt that there are some concepts like MIDP, MIDLETs, J2ME (micro edition) and like that. What concept is the complete and the most convenient standard for beginning development for mobile phones? 3-.Which IDE is the most easy-to-understand? I heard about Netbeans with no experience, also i'm familiar to Microsoft's Visual Studio but don't know if there's VS-like IDEs for Java which also supports development for mobile area. 4-I have the latest Java run-time installed(Java Standard Edition from www.java.com), then i need to download Java Development Kit (JDK) to start programming under JAVA. Right? As Final: 5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low- level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++ syntaxes into Java programming enviroment? I needed to consult to your big experiences to have a good start with Java :-) If you help me to understand and recommend the goods, i'd appreciate. Regards... > Hi experts, > I'm a bit familiar to Java and i want to begin programming under Java [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and show my projects under computer enviroment? Applet-like class > files inside browsers or mobile emulators? Or JAR archives? <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/deployment/index.html> <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/deployment/index.html> > 2-I want to learn basics for developing applications for mobile > phones(like modern Nokia phones) and i learnt that there are some > concepts like MIDP, MIDLETs, J2ME (micro edition) and like that. What > concept is the complete and the most convenient standard for beginning > development for mobile phones? <http://java.sun.com/javame/technology/index.jsp> > 3-.Which IDE is the most easy-to-understand? I heard about Netbeans > with no experience, also i'm familiar to Microsoft's Visual Studio > but don't know if there's VS-like IDEs for Java which also supports > development for mobile area. <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html> > 4-I have the latest Java run-time installed(Java Standard Edition from > www.java.com), then i need to download Java Development Kit (JDK) to > start programming under JAVA. Right? <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html> <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html> > As Final: > > 5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low- > level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++ > syntaxes into Java programming enviroment? <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/cpp.html> > I needed to consult to your big experiences to have a good start with > Java :-) If you help me to understand and recommend the goods, i'd > appreciate. > > Regards... > > Hi experts, > > I'm a bit familiar to Java and i want to begin programming under Java [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Also it would be nice to share your own words instead of pasting links. On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:05:04 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >Also it would be nice to share your own words instead of pasting links. Links are better: 1. the information pointed to can be updated. Inline words including the errors are frozen for all time. 2. Much of this material has been post many times before. A link saves those who have seen it before. 3. the material pointed two has the advantage of HTML formatting, tables, alignment, colours etc to make the point more clearly. 4. people usually spend more time polishing web material than one-off posts. 5. It will often answer related questions as a matter of course. 6. You can point to material other than your own personal compositions. 7. it is pre-indexed by Google. You can often find what you want without even having to post a question. 8. links are more likely to contain correct information since others have already had a chance to read it and send in corrections. inline is better: 1. responses can be specific to the questioner's example problem. 2. people are more likely to read it than follow a link. It amazing how frequently a newbie will ask re-ask a question already clearly answered in the links given him. Perhaps newbies are manually retyping links into browsers. I don't understand the source of the reluctance to follow links. It is just a mouseclick away.  SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com >...I don't understand the source of the >reluctance to follow links. Neither do I. And I wish I did understand it. I can, to a certain extent, understand it of people who might be *answering* a question, and as a result of not following somebody *elses* link to the entire explanation, would prefer to put the benefit of their experience, in words of their own choosing (perhaps quite redundantly to the info. contained in a link posted earlier, that they did not follow). 'off-line readers' perhaps? Hardly relevant to a GG poster, who is asking a question, is it? Note to the OP: Google is your friend. (We are not.) SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.physci.org/ >>...I don't understand the source of the >>reluctance to follow links. > > Neither do I. And I wish I did understand it. I rarely follow links in posts because it means that I have to change context (and tools). My reaction to replies consisting only of links is "boring", unless the post contains some material that's interesting on its own and only refers to the link for more information, more depth, etc. Further, I disagree with many of Roedy's arguments for linking, they are obviously a reflection of his own posting preference. /gordon -- > >...I don't understand the source of the > >reluctance to follow links. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Note to the OP: Google is your friend. (We are not.) Yes, but there are sometimes which you need more help than Google provides. Google usually gives great results but if a question is so specific or contain more intense/satisfactory requests than Google supplies to you, then you need to ask even you may get the same answers from elsewhere like books or real-life persons. But i think it's easy and convenient to ask groups when you "really" need help. That's why newsgroup members are here. If Google would provide everything, nobody was a group member. Note: I followed the links provided. > -- > Andrew Thompsonhttp://www.physci.org/ > > Message posted via JavaKB.comhttp://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200712/1 > That's why newsgroup members are here. If Google would provide > everything, nobody was a group member. Actually if Google provided the answers to all the "help-desk" style questions that would free up the newsgroup more for the avowed purpose of *discussion* of Java matters. SignatureLew > Links are better: > > 1. the information pointed to can be updated. Inline words including > the errors are frozen for all time. Relatively few personal websites remain up for "for all time" let alone "for 5 years". On the other hand the information in an inline post is really an audit trail of what was said, and by whom. Nobody can go back and pretend that they said something different. Errors get corrected in followups. > 2. Much of this material has been post many times before. A link > saves those who have seen it before. This contradicts number 1, where you claimed that it was an advantage that the text can be modified. Also you can't tell if you've seen it before unless you somehow remember every link you've visited. > 3. the material pointed two has the advantage of HTML formatting, > tables, alignment, colours etc to make the point more clearly. Or disadvantage if the author has no concept of usability, layout, or requires Java/Javascript/Flash/WTF to see the code examples which just as easily could have been plain text. This most certainly doesn't help those with accessibility problems. > 5. It will often answer related questions as a matter of course. And just as often result in non-sequitors being presented as answers. > 6. You can point to material other than your own personal > compositions. As you can when you reply "inline", with links. > 7. it is pre-indexed by Google. You can often find what you want > without even having to post a question. Usenet is also archived and searchable. Many posters don't even understand that "Google groups" is not part of the web. > 8. links are more likely to contain correct information since others > have already had a chance to read it and send in corrections. Both websites and Usenet posts often contain errors, or confuse "opinion" with "fact". However on Usenet, such posts are contested publically. Websites can (and do) display the same errors year after year, regardless of how much email the author receives. This is exacerbated by websites purporting to be authoritative. > inline is better: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > retyping links into browsers. I don't understand the source of the > reluctance to follow links. It is just a mouseclick away. 3. it's easier to follow the discussion or to post properly quoted and attributed followups when the text is in the post itself, instead of split across forums. 4. no single poster gets to moderate his "own" discussions, or spin the material to suit his own purposes. /gordon -- ... > Also it would be nice to share your own words instead of pasting links. It would be nice of *you* to trim text no longer immediately relevant to your reply. And since you seem ignorant of the value of Jeff posting links, I will explain. .. Jeff's links are a way of attaching a great deal of data to a very short bandwidth (and sparing all the members of this group who have heard such inane questions a thousand times). In fact, the very fact he can lay his browser on so many directly useful links also hints at an underlying truth, which I interpret as *Use a frigging search engine you pathetic, useless, whining, /mongrel/, bastard.* Of course, Jeff chose not to express, and was probably not even thinking of, it that way. (shrugs vaguely) Credit to him. -- Andrew T. > ... > > Also it would be nice to share your own words instead of pasting links. > > It would be nice of *you* to trim text no longer immediately > relevant to your reply. And since you seem ignorant of the > value of Jeff posting links, I will explain. .. I don't think i used wrong words, however i don't think i'm "ignorant"(that's a long issue, no need to extend), please don't guess if you're not sure when you use an adjective for a person. My aim was to find answers in my mind abot some Java basics, i tried to ask them as polite as a standard post, but maybe this way of asking would be opposite of newsgroup's nature. As long as there weren't rough words by OP, there shouln't be an arguement enviroment to talk out of topic. (and there's nothing entrely as rough) > Jeff's links are a way of attaching a great deal of data to > a very short bandwidth (and sparing all the members of this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > which I interpret as *Use a frigging search engine you > pathetic, useless, whining, /mongrel/, bastard.* You are entirely incorrect. I agree, the links are extremely helpful, i know, but there are thousands of links and it's hard to find a well- categorized one, however i just wanted to hear about Java-related basics from poster which were not too specific. Although there wasn't any problem and the techical explanations were good, i couldn't understand why you extended the topic after the latest message was sent 1-2 days ago. > Of course, Jeff chose not to express, and was probably not > even thinking of, it that way. (shrugs vaguely) Credit to him. IMHO, I don't suppose. It's not a proper thing to express thoughts which are another person's. > -- > Andrew T. On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >1-I know Java applications cannot be run as an executable file, there >must be a interpreter needed, what's the most convenient way to run >and show my projects under computer enviroment? Applet-like class >files inside browsers or mobile emulators? Or JAR archives? You can run java as exe. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/nativecompiler.html To run inside browsers you create Applets. The two most common ways to run Java are with Hotspot using java.exe or under the control of Java Webstart javaws.exe . See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/javaexe.html http://mindprod.com/jgloss/javawebstart.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >2-I want to learn basics for developing applications for mobile >phones(like modern Nokia phones) and i learnt that there are some >concepts like MIDP, MIDLETs, J2ME (micro edition) and like that. What >concept is the complete and the most convenient standard for beginning >development for mobile phones? As a beginner, I would put this on hold temporarily. You will get more help and find more books on standard Java. Basically the Java's you use in phones are stripped down Java's, so you have to write more code yourself that comes built-in.. Also the memory and speed constraints are tighter. So you need more skill. see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/cellphone.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >3-.Which IDE is the most easy-to-understand? I heard about Netbeans >with no experience, also i'm familiar to Microsoft's Visual Studio >but don't know if there's VS-like IDEs for Java which also supports >development for mobile area. This is like saying which person would make the best life partner. It depends on your taste. You can try them out free and see which one feels best. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >4-I have the latest Java run-time installed(Java Standard Edition from >www.java.com), then i need to download Java Development Kit (JDK) to >start programming under JAVA. Right? yes. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jdk.html and http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low- >level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++ >syntaxes into Java programming enviroment? Learning Java is much like learning a foreign language. The sooner you start learning to think in the language, rather than think in your native language (C++) and translating, the better command of the language you develop. This is even truer of Java than most other computer languages because Java is so strongly idiomatic. There are canned ways of doing almost everything. You build very little from scratch from the primitive elements. Java superficially looks a lot like C++, but nearly all my trouble learning Java came from presuming it should work the same as C++ or should have buried somewhere some feature I used in C++. It works quite differently inside and has a completely different design philosophy. The rule of thumb is, don't presume Java works the same as C++ just because the syntax looks the same. Java is a bit like an angler fish that dangles a C++ syntax lure to seduce C++ programmers into trying Java (for their own good, of course). see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/cpp.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >I needed to consult to your big experiences to have a good start with >Java :-) If you help me to understand and recommend the goods, i'd >appreciate. Your way of expressing is unusual. What is your native tongue? I am fascinated by accents and dialects and the ways people learning English modify its syntax. Is there a recording of you, or someone from your country speaking anywhere on the net? This interest was sparked by The Book Of Knowledge I read as a child that showed, French, English and literal word-for-word translations. SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen > <kimiraikkonen85@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > This interest was sparked by The Book Of Knowledge I read as a child > that showed, French, English and literal word-for-word translations. If I make take a wild guess (just for fun): The alias "kimiraikkonen" suggest a finnish origin. Right? /W On Dec 16, 7:41 pm, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote: > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:38:10 -0800 (PST), kimiraikkonen > <kimiraikkone...@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products > The Java Glossaryhttp://mindprod.com Hi,First off thanks for replying my questions then i am not Finnish and my native language is not English but i'm trying to speak as fluent as natives even some of natives do not speak fluently really. But i didn't understand the way you critised me if it is a praise or negative criticism. :-) Thanks. > On Dec 16, 7:41 pm, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > But i didn't understand the way you critised me if it is a praise or > negative criticism. :-) There is no way that Roedy is criticizing you. That would be the opposite of his nature. He was asking out of ambassadorial curiosity. He's a person very interested in who people are, and what their cultures and idioms are. He is very respectful of everyone's culture and is the last person who would criticize you for your English, nor any beautiful custom or tradition of your part of the world. SignatureLew > Hi experts, > I'm a bit familiar to Java and i want to begin programming under Java > with a good beginner's resource but there are some confusions in my > mind: <http://www.leepoint.net/notes-java/index.html> No conversation, just work. :) > 5- I heard inspirations for Java about being similiar to C++ and low- > level languages. So, how good is to transfer and manipulate C++ > syntaxes into Java programming enviroment? The syntax is similar to C++, but the underlying ideas and functionality is completely different: 1. Java methods are virtual except in certain circumstances; C++ methods are nonvirtual by default. 2. Every access of `Object x' in Java is roughly equivalent to `Object* x' in C++. 3. Java is much more strictly-typed than C++. 4. Java is very specific when it comes to how expressions evaluate; C/C++ are extremely loose (e.g., `x++' only guarantees incrementing by the end of the statement in C++, immediately thereafter in Java). 5. A `char' in Java is a 16-bit unsigned integer equivalent to a UTF-16 value; the C/C++ `signed char' is a `byte' in Java. The values of other types are very well-defined in Java. 6. Generics are only (as of Java 6) compile-time syntax for increased compile-time static verification in Java; C++ templates are manually redefined for every type and persist to runtime. Others that I can't think of off the top of my head. SignatureBeware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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