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Java Forum / General / December 2007A single interview question
An »experienced Java developer« is to be hired. You may ask him just one question to estimate how much experience he has with Java. What would that question be? Here's my question. Feel free to try to answer it without looking up a reference. I believe that it does not appear on any public list of interview questions and most beginners will not know the answer while experienced Java programmers should know the answer. Mark all JavaDoc parameter descriptions from the following list that are in perfect accordance with Sun's current recommendations. @param text the text of the tool tip @param text The text of the tool tip @param text the text of the tool tip. @param text The text of the tool tip. The idea is that every experienced programm will have encountered the situation of writing or modifying the documentation for a parameter many times. So he will have looked up how to do this once and now know it by heart. (OK, it might be that he does have written in many times, but never cared to learn how to do it. So, I assume that someone who cares is wanted.) > An »experienced Java developer« is to be hired. > > You may ask him just one question to estimate how > much experience he has with Java. > > What would that question be? One question is never enough. At what level do you pitch the question? I try to always ensure that people who claim to be Java programmers at least understand the requirements for equals and hashcode. I don't want to have to fix their bugs. > Here's my question. > > Feel free to try to answer it without looking up a reference. I had read Sun's recommendations on this a long time ago. I was able to narrow it down to 1 of 2 but I wasn't certain which one it was. Neither of which are the way that I actually write my Javadoc comments. > The idea is that every experienced programm will have > encountered the situation of writing or modifying the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > never cared to learn how to do it. So, I assume that someone > who cares is wanted.) I don't follow Sun's guidelines on brace-placement, so why should I care about their opinions on my comments? I know from code that you have posted previously that you also have your own unconvential code formatting style, so why do you care about this particular recommendation? Dan.  SignatureDaniel Dyer http://www.uncommons.org >I don't follow Sun's guidelines on brace-placement, so why should I care >about their opinions on my comments? I know from code that you have >posted previously that you also have your own unconvential code formatting >style, so why do you care about this particular recommendation? I want to follow the recommendations of Sun as far as possible and as I am aware of them. The bracing style is an exception, because I have a strong dislike of their style. But regarding most other recommandations I have no such strong preference of my own and are grateful for a guideline. >> I don't follow Sun's guidelines on brace-placement, so why should I care >> about their opinions on my comments? I know from code that you have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > no such strong preference of my own and are grateful > for a guideline. I agree that initial-brace placement is "wrong" in Sun's guidelines, but there is a deeper reason to follow Javadoc conventions. The placement or absence of a period, the presence or absence of a capitalized first word of a description - these things affect how Javadoc produces its output. SignatureLew > An »experienced Java developer« is to be hired. > > You may ask him just one question to estimate how > much experience he has with Java. > > What would that question be? Some open ended question where the applicant come can come with some pro and con's. The important is not what he thinks, but whether the argumentation makes sense and cover some of the relevant alternatives. Examples: - what is your preferred way of persisting data and why do you prefer it over alternatives - which patterns to you use, which do you never use and why Get him (or her !) talking. Ask a few questions in between to make sure that it is not just memorized but really understood. > Here's my question. > Mark all JavaDoc parameter descriptions from the > following list that are in perfect accordance with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > @param text the text of the tool tip. > @param text The text of the tool tip. You will get someone that is good at writing JavaDoc for sure, but that does not guarantee an experienced developer. Arne > An »experienced Java developer« is to be hired. > > You may ask him just one question to estimate how > much experience he has with Java. > > What would that question be? Generally, as an interviewer I'm trying to test two things: 1. Is the resume reasonably accurate? 2. Can the candidate discuss design issues clearly? I would not be interviewing the candidate if the resume did not imply the right programming skills for the job. I usually pick a couple of fairly arbitrary items from their claimed previous work and ask them to discuss some of the design issues they encountered, and how they resolved them. The objective is to get into a design discussion. If I were limited to one question I would have to pick one previous project, but I think it is better, if possible, to discuss a couple of them. Patricia > I would not be interviewing the candidate if the resume did not imply > the right programming skills for the job. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > project, but I think it is better, if possible, to discuss a couple of > them. An interviewer once posed me a hypothetical: "You bought a VCR, then foolishly threw away the receipt and box, before deciding you didn't want to keep it. What do you do about that?" I said, "If I can't gift it to a friend, I'll donate it to charity and take the write-off." He went nuts with excitement. Seems in all the interview-question seminars he'd attended devoted to that question, the notion of a charitable donation had never come up. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "Interview-question seminars?" SignatureLew > I believe that it does not appear on any public list of > interview questions and most beginners will not know the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > @param text the text of the tool tip. > @param text The text of the tool tip. I have no idea what Sun's recommendation is. I know what the format is on the project I'm working on. Also, someone might be able to answer this question while not being able to program their way out of a wet paper bag. If you only get one question, I'd go for something that is actually about programming. /L SignatureLasse Reichstein Nielsen - lrn@hotpop.com DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html> 'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.' >Also, someone might be able to answer this question while not >being able to program their way out of a wet paper bag. It's about the probability that this will happen. There is always a chance that an interview might be misleading about future performance. To get out of a wet paper bag, I'd start with a breadth-first search (using an XO as hardware to cope with the wetness). If that does not find a way out after a certain time, I would switch to a brute-force algorithm. >> Also, someone might be able to answer this question while not >> being able to program their way out of a wet paper bag. > > It's about the probability that this will happen. There is > always a chance that an interview might be misleading about > future performance. You would reject me as a job candidate, based on my lack of Java knowledge, and accept someone straight out of their first Java programming class who happens to have studied Sun's programming standards last week. Patricia > To get out of a wet paper bag, I'd start with a breadth-first > search (using an XO as hardware to cope with the wetness). A* ftw. ;-) > An »experienced Java developer« is to be hired. > > You may ask him just one question to estimate how > much experience he has with Java. I've never been asked technical questions at any interview. On the other hand, I get asked about various projects I've been part of, what my roll in those projects was, whether I considered them to be success or failures, how I define those concepts, why I think the failed projects failed, and what I might have done differently. My impression is that the technical stuff is only a small part. On the other hand, the ability to work together with others in a team and fit in is more important, harder to learn, and will end up costing the company more if I lack those skills than if I lacked programming skills. /gordon -- >> An »experienced Java developer« is to be hired. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > company more if I lack those skills than if I lacked programming > skills. OTOH, as a programmer I've worked with lots of teammates who had great people skills but were bad programmers. I'd prefer the reverse. I believe that unless the person is a psycho their programming skills will most definitely harm the company if they're lacking. Would you take skydiving lessons from a very charismatic instructor who didn't pack your chute correctly? SignatureLew > unless the person is a psycho their programming skills will > most definitely harm the company if they're lacking. Unless they're a psycho their people skills will not prevent harm if the programming skills are lacking. Not, "A psycho with bad programming skills will be all right." SignatureLew >> unless the person is a psycho their programming skills will most >> definitely harm the company if they're lacking. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Not, "A psycho with bad programming skills will be all right." Darn it. My sentences aren't saying what I mean. I mean a good programmer even with bad people skills won't harm the company unless the bad people skills are to a point of distinct harm. Naturally you want a competent programmer with competent people skills. (Like being able to formulate a sentence that expresses his intent.) SignatureLew > OTOH, as a programmer I've worked with lots of teammates who had > great people skills but were bad programmers. I'd prefer the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Would you take skydiving lessons from a very charismatic instructor > who didn't pack your chute correctly? No, but the company is not taking that kind of risk every time they hire someone. Given two experienced candidates I'd probably choose the one I got along with best. I'm not saying that programming skills are unimportant, only that those who have interviewed me have chosen to focus on team skills at the interview. Maybe they can see from my CV that I probably have "sufficient" programming skills. Or maybe it's just a Swedish thing, or it reflects on the type of companies I like to work for, or maybe it has to do with the ability to learn people skills as compared to programming skills, or the testability of these things in an interview situation. I've worked on projects with people who really were a liability due to their inability to work as a team member, despite apparently brilliant programming skills. I once petitioned to have someone removed from a project in order to avoid failure, and I heard that he was later fired as a result of being kicked out of another project for a similar reason. Not every project member needs to be a star programmer, but they all need to be able to work together. /gordon -- > I'm not saying that programming skills are unimportant, only that > those who have interviewed me have chosen to focus on team skills at > the interview. Maybe they can see from my CV that I probably have > "sufficient" programming skills. Your points are well taken. The bottom line seems to be that a good programmer has to have both good programming skills /and/ good people skills. Either one's lack can torpedo a project. > I've worked on projects with people who really were a liability due to > their inability to work as a team member, despite apparently brilliant > programming skills. What I was referring to, however, wasn't the kind of saboteur-level badness you describe, but the more usual social awkwardness so many engineers evince. I do not think it necessary for a programmer to be another Dale Carnegie, only that they be fully committed to the team's goals and not hostile. It doesn't take a diplomat to be a good team member. There is a middle ground. Blunt, sometimes rude people who speak truth for the good of the project are an asset, even if they ruffle feathers. Perhaps especially if. OTOH, saboteurs, bullies and s**theads must go. A person must be willing to work with the team; I would forgive a lot of social ills given that basic commitment. Unwillingness to support the common weal is a sin on a team. SignatureLew > Mark all JavaDoc parameter descriptions from the > following list that are in perfect accordance with > Sun's current recommendations. What a horrific, and useless, question to ask at an interview. Especially if this is your one and only question! What does the memorization of an arbitrary section of a guideline have to do with their programming skills? >> Mark all JavaDoc parameter descriptions from the >> following list that are in perfect accordance with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What does the memorization of an arbitrary section of a guideline have > to do with their programming skills? For Stefan, at least, this question might serve as a way of eliminating any applicant without basic initiative and Google skills. The base article of this thread is now the first Google hit for: "stefan ram" interview Patricia > An >>experienced Java developer<< is to be hired. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > documentation for a parameter many times. So he will have > looked up how to do this once and now know it by heart. I have experience from java 1.8.8 -- what's that, 15 years? I am currently employed as Technology Director in a startup company, and I code daily (its a small company!). I have never *once* used javadoc. Your logic is flawed, and your real world experience questionable. >> An >>experienced Java developer<< is to be hired. >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> > I have experience from java 1.8.8 -- what's that, 15 years? I am There never was a Java 1.8.x, yet. <http://mindprod.com/jgloss/javareleasedates.html> > currently employed as Technology Director in a startup company, and I > code daily (its a small company!). I have never *once* used javadoc. More the pity, that. Perhaps you don't actually program in Java? > Your logic is flawed, and your real world experience questionable. Perhaps his logic is flawed, but you should support your assertion with logic of your own. Most Java programmers, and in my experience all competent Java programmers, refer to the Javadocs constantly. The API is so large, I find it amazing that anyone could hold the whole in memory without *some* reference. Furthermore, most Java programmers, and in my experience all competent Java programmers, use the Javadocs to gain familiarity with parts of the API that they haven't previously learned. In addition moreover, most Java programmers, and in my experience all competent Java programmers, write Javadocs for their own code. Do you? SignatureLew > I have experience from java 1.8.8 -- what's that, 15 years? I am > currently employed as Technology Director in a startup company, and I > code daily (its a small company!). I have never *once* used javadoc. > Your logic is flawed, and your real world experience questionable. Let me see: - there are no Java 1.8.8 - Java 1.0 was released 12 years ago (Wikipedia claims January 23rd 1996 - in one and a half month that will be 12 years) - it is unprofessional not to write JavaDoc comments in real code I don't think the question about JavaDoc is a good interview question. But your post is not a good answer to the reasonable interview question "What experience with Java do you have ?". In most places the interview would end very quickly. Arne > groups: comp.lang.java.programmer > > An experienced Java developer« is to be hired. > > You may ask him just one question to estimate how > much experience he has with Java. I don't think that I'd work for anyone who only asked me one Java question in an interview. However, a question about the usefulness of unit tests would give me insight into the candidate's suitability. SignatureTris Orendorff [ Anyone naming their child should spend a few minutes checking rhyming slang and dodgy sounding names. 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