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Java Forum / General / December 2007Newbie wants to self-taught java
Hello, I want to learn java. Do you have idea for a project that I can bring on each level of my learning java? Thank you On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:49:58 -0800 (PST), fasisi <Frans.Indroyono@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >I want to learn java. Do you have idea for a project that I can bring >on each level of my learning java? see http://mindprod.com/project/projects.html  SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Nov 30, 2:44 pm, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote: > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:49:58 -0800 (PST), fasisi > <Frans.Indroy...@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products > The Java Glossaryhttp://mindprod.com Hello, Great projects. Thanks for the source. Thanks a lot. > Hello, > > I want to learn java. Do you have idea for a project that I can bring > on each level of my learning java? Why do you want to learn java? Is it just to learn it or is there some employment objective? What type of employment are you interested in? > > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why do you want to learn java? Is it just to learn it or is there some > employment objective? What type of employment are you interested in? I want to learn Java to make money. I am thinking to sell software. >> > Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I want to learn Java to make money. I am thinking to sell software. Ok, but in general what type of software? There are so many different things that you can do with Java that you might narrow it down. An obvious example would be what type of front-end would your software have? HTML or Swing, or something else? > >> "fasisi" <Frans.Indroy...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > would be what type of front-end would your software have? HTML or Swing, or > something else? Currently I am thinking about librarian software. The software stores library collection information. How many books for each title... how much left available (can be borrowed)... borrow frequency... how much books lost... etc. The front-end will be swing. > Hello, > > I want to learn java. Do you have idea for a project that I can bring > on each level of my learning java? > > Thank you http://www.javapassion.com/javaintro/ Start at the beginning and do each lab project and homework. That'll get you started. Note that the class is already underway. You should probably save any homeworks you do rather than turn them in. > > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Note that the class is already underway. You should probably save any > homeworks you do rather than turn them in. Thank you for your advice. I have checked the source and it is good. Thank you. > Hello, > > I want to learn java. Do you have idea for a project that I can bring > on each level of my learning java? > > Thank you There is an award winning book: "Thinking in Java". Remarkably, you can get it for free on the net. I would recommend to start with NetBeans, specially if you are used to MSVS, because it is very easy. Then, you will want more and naturally migrate to Eclipse, the best IDE ever written. If you are going to use a GUI Builder, don't bother with Matisse. There is a much better one (bidirectional), an Eclipse plugin. -Ramon > > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -Ramon Get "Thinking in Java" for free? Mmm... what is the url? Is it torrent? Actually I have both NetBeans and Eclipse for now I still prefer NetBeans. I still can't make Eclipse open Java's API doc when I ask for help on some keywords or class name. Can you help me with this one (open Java's API doc)? Thank you > Get "Thinking in Java" for free? Mmm... what is the url? Is it > torrent? Nope, not a torrent (the book is not that large). http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/ //Roger Lindsjö > > Get "Thinking in Java" for free? Mmm... what is the url? Is it >> torrent? > > Nope, not a torrent (the book is not that large). > http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/ The free version is the 3rd edition of the book. The 4th edition is for money. IMHO /Thinking in Java/ lives up to the title, but it is not necessarily the best exemplar of how to think in Java. Avoid duck-like imprinting on Bruce Eckel's style, at least until you've read works by the likes of Joshua Bloch, Brian Goetz, Doug Lea, Marty Hall and the other luminaries of Java disquisition. TIJ was a strong jumpstart in my early education in Java programming. SignatureLew > >fasisiwrote: > > > Get "Thinking in Java" for free? Mmm... what is the url? Is it [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Lew Thanks a lot for the book's link. I am downloading it. Great source! Thank you. > > > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Get "Thinking in Java" for free? Mmm... what is the url? Is it > torrent? > Actually I have both NetBeans and Eclipse for now I still prefer NetBeans. My prediction is that (1) You will keep NetBeans. Some stuff is much better done in NetBeans, such as the OpenOffice plugin. (2) As soon as you perform certain things in Eclipse, you will migrate to it. YMMV. If you plan to use a GUI builder you *have* to use Eclipse. > I still can't make Eclipse open Java's API doc when I ask > for help on some keywords or class name. Can you help me with this one > (open Java's API doc)? What happens is that you have to install the Javadoc somehow. Get the SWT package (the most professionally packaged package I own, you can tell its IBM heritage). It comes with a full directory that you place in the workspace folder, and it has some instructions to make the SWT javadoc work with code highlighting. -Ramon > > > > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > -Ramon Where can I get that Javadoc? Is it from java's website? I already have it. > > > > > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Where can I get that Javadoc? Is it from java's website? I already > have it. What I meant is that every package should in theory come with its corresponding javadoc, and instructions for making it work under Eclipse. I can comment on two packages that I have installed. In the javadoc category this is the grade they get: - SWT: A+ - OpenOffice F- My suggestion is that you download and install SWT (the Swing competitor, comes from the same folks that brought us Eclipse, available in Eclipse's web site) just to familiarize yourself with Javadoc-Eclipse hookup details, as they were very clear (but don't recall them). Having javadoc help is one of the most helpful productivity (and learning) features I can think of. We developers should make a point of asking: "yes, your package sounds great, but does it come with javadoc for Eclipse? It is a deal breaker for me". -Ramon > My prediction is that (1) You will keep NetBeans. Some stuff is much > better done in NetBeans, such as the OpenOffice plugin. (2) As soon as > you perform certain things in Eclipse, you will migrate to it. YMMV. > If you plan to use a GUI builder you *have* to use Eclipse. Based on what do you predict those things? I've used both Eclipse (and its variants, WSAD and RAD) and NetBeans for years. Usually on the same projects. I have yet to prefer Eclipse. Yet I would not predict that the OP would stay with NetBeans over Eclipse. As to the second point, I have read many, many comments from people who prefer Eclipse but go on to say that NetBeans is better for GUI development, often with words like "admittedly" or "except for". I am interested in why you feel one would "*have*" to go the Eclipse route. I note that those who seem strongest in GUI development claim to prefer a text editor to any GUI builder tool. They tend to comments like, "It has a great GUI builder, but I prefer just to code the GUI in the editor." And by "GUI", do you mean "Swing"? SignatureLew > > My prediction is that (1) You will keep NetBeans. Some stuff is much > > better done in NetBeans, such as the OpenOffice plugin. (2) As soon as [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > editor to any GUI builder tool. They tend to comments like, "It has a great > GUI builder, but I prefer just to code the GUI in the editor." I agree entirely with your comments IF (and only if) the developer is limited to using free software. If the developer can afford a couple hundred bucks for a tool that will bring high productivity, then I disagree with your assessment. The tool that makes all the difference in GUI building is this: http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/ The state of free, OSS tools is such that no wonder people prefer 'vi' or 'notepad'. > And by "GUI", do you mean "Swing"? Nope. My comments stands, as the (one and only acceptable) tool for GUI building is equally adept at Swing and SWT. -Ramon > I agree entirely with your comments IF (and only if) the developer is > limited to using free software. If the developer can afford a couple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/ Could you give me two examples how that program far exceeds what is available for free? Specific to Java, of course. > The state of free, OSS tools is such that no wonder people prefer 'vi' > or 'notepad'. There's no way vi can match NetBeans. My experience with pay-for tools is that you get a lot less than the free components, plus the hassle of vendor-lock in. Everything looks slick and great until you get half way into it with a real project, then you find out where they cut corners and why some other library critical to your project is inherently incompatible with any real-world use of your pricey tool. > > I agree entirely with your comments IF (and only if) the developer is > > limited to using free software. If the developer can afford a couple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/ > Could you give me two examples how that program far exceeds what is > available for free? Mark: Two examples is one too many. I have one word for you: Bidirectionality. We could add concepts like: proper parsing, reflection, introspection, Swing and SWT support, very smart and intuitive way to visually communicate with the GUI builder. Oh, in the design of (and learning!) of layout managers, it is simply perfect. Matisse is such a hack, not only they have blue (read-only) code which is cast in stone, but they add magic tags inside the comments! > Specific to Java, of course. I wrote to them asking for a C++ version. Their answer, and I quote: > We don't have any plans to target C++. Does anyone still use that? :-) end of quote. Then I replied "what about a plugin for NetBeans?" They said that Eclipse owns 75% of the IDE market, and that's where the money (I would add "future") is. As far as IDEA, they have a unique approach, similar to "capturing the output" used by the ancient terminal emulation programs (or 'script' in Unix). Intriguing, but it doesn't work, for instance with "non- standard" layouts, where they (JetBrains) decide which layouts are standard. But don't take my word for it. Just watch their videos (be patient because they look non-responsive at the beginning while they load), and get the 1-month full-featured freebie. http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/ -Ramon (just a satisfied customer) > But don't take my word for it. Just watch their videos (be patient > because they look non-responsive at the beginning while they load), > and get the 1-month full-featured freebie. > > http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/ I don't see any videos on that page..... > > But don't take my word for it. Just watch their videos (be patient > > because they look non-responsive at the beginning while they load), [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I don't see any videos on that page..... Click on the left side, on a folder called "Demos" under "Screen Shots". I would label it "Video Demos" to attract the impatient XGen programmers. Note: I reserve the right to later become a devil's advocate and say my (few!) complaints about Window Builder. We don't want them to become too smug... -Ramon > Click on the left side, on a folder called "Demos" under "Screen > Shots". > > I would label it "Video Demos" to attract the impatient XGen > programmers. Ah, that script is being hosted on another site, instantiations.com. My script blocker wouldn't run it since it didn't come from the host site. > > Click on the left side, on a folder called "Demos" under "Screen > > Shots". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Ah, that script is being hosted on another site, instantiations.com. My > script blocker wouldn't run it since it didn't come from the host site. We eagerly await your verdict. Will go concur? Did I go overboard singing that product's praises? Perhaps I "spiced it up a bit"? :-) -RFH > We eagerly await your verdict. Will go concur? Did I go overboard > singing that product's praises? > > Perhaps I "spiced it up a bit"? :-) Well I looked at one, the Swing demo, since I don't do SWT. I was not super impressed. First, it largely seemed to be a clone of Matisse. Everything looked very familiar. Second thing was I don't use or like the Border or Grid layouts personally, I wished they had shown something else. I'd also like to see how it goes from sources for gui classes to the editor. I didn't see a demo for that. Also while watching I remember what I didn't care for about Eclipse, their windowing "view" system is complicated and gets in my way. I'll have to learn Eclipse eventually but it just seems complicated rather than powerful. I don't like systems with too many options or that try to do everything. I prefer that the system get it right on it's own without a lot of user fiddling. Anyhoo, it doesn't look like I'm missing much. Maybe some day I'll download the trial version and give it a work out. I don't have time right now though.... > > I agree entirely with your comments IF (and only if) the developer is > > limited to using free software. If the developer can afford a couple [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > There's no way vi can match NetBeans. > My experience with pay-for tools is that you get a lot less than the > free components, plus the hassle of vendor-lock in. In this case the vendor lock-in factor is zero. Unlike Matisse, or the original (non-Eclipsized) JBuilder which converted the drawing into very strange (easy for them to parse) Java code, Window Builder generates code which seems to be written by you. All you have to do is change the variable names (sometimes not even that as the darn thing comes up with a perfect name!), and add you extra code. You can pretty much start and stop using Window Builder at any stage in your project with no consequences (other than your productivity -not to mention fun factor- going down). The tool creator(s) (I may be hyperbolic, but I don't think the appellative "genious" is too far off the mark) even challenge you to send them any unparseable code, so they can work on it. I already did, and they told me: "That is a great idea. Our next release will contain your suggestion". (No complains about anyone stroking my ego). > Everything looks slick and great until you get half way into it with a > real project, then you find out where they cut corners and why some > other library critical to your project is inherently incompatible with > any real-world use of your pricey tool. They don't use any libraries, they just parse you code. Pricey? The thing will pay for itself in ONE use (don't remember the price, though). -Ramon Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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