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Java Forum / General / November 2007Java versus dotnet
Hello, I have almost 20 years of experiment on high-tech. Right now, I want to start a new business, based on high technology. I would like to write a bussiness program, and I am quite confused of what technology should I use. Dotnet platform, or Java (I mean - programming, not Dotnet operating system). Dotnet is more popular then Java but Java still stands as good technology for multi-platform environment. (I live on Israel, and I think the population of dotnet is more then Java). Dotnet cost money, and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications). Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ? (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?). The sale, will of course not be cheeper because of that fact, but will be as the price as other simmiliar programs at the market. ... (BTW, not the issue of this forum-mail, I need some bussiness-coaching, and not only personal cauching - is there any forum for that ?) Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? Thanks :) ... > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? Why should I care? Please take questions like this over to an advocacy group. Should you decide on Java and have technical questions, this is the place to post. -- Andrew T. > ... >> Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? >> Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? > > Why should I care? Then why should you answer? >> ... >>> Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Then why should you answer? Perhaps if you'd read the lines you trimmed, you might have a clue. But then, you seem like someone who could not get a clue if it fell on you.  SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.physci.org/ > Dotnet cost money, Look at the Mono project which is a free implementation of some of .Net. There is a C# compiler, IDE and runtime that runs on Linux or Windows. > and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications). > Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ? You can use Eclipse to develop commercial applications without paying any fee. > (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is > free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?). Linux can be obtained and used without paying a licence fee. Some Linux distributions can be purchased, in which case the price includes media and installation support. Some Linux distributions are purchased on an annual subscription basis. This isn't the right place to discuss Linux so I'll leave it at that. > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? There's no easy answers to that sort of question. It probably depends in part on what your background is, what sort of application you want to develop and what sort of platforms you intend targeting. Mr. X. wrote: >> Dotnet is more popular then Java Evidence on the web suggests that Java is considerably more widely used than C# or .Net. This could change, and the definition of "popular" in these sources is open to debate. OTOH, there's no evidence I've seen for the converse claim, that .Net is more popular than Java. > Look at the Mono project which is a free implementation of some of .Net. > There is a C# compiler, IDE and runtime that runs on Linux or Windows. I have heard that Mono is behind the full features of .Net, but it may be enough for the purpose. >> Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? >> Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? > > There's no easy answers to that sort of question. It probably depends in > part on what your background is, what sort of application you want to > develop and what sort of platforms you intend targeting. The rule of thumb is that Java is better. Just kidding. This is a Java newsgroup, after all. The real rule of thumb is that .Net is better if you're running exclusively on Windows, Java otherwise. Both Java and .Net are heavily supported by major players. I don't know if that is true for Mono. Once you get into professional deployments you will find big differences, at least in style. Programmers think sometimes that only development costs count. Operations is by far the larger expense and risk for a system. From what I've heard, Linux platforms (and the Java engines on them) are more stable, scalable and reliable than Windows platforms. Oh, there I go rumor-mongering. I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence from sysadmins that Linux systems are safer. SignatureLew >Mr. X. wrote: >>> Dotnet is more popular then Java [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >sources is open to debate. OTOH, there's no evidence I've seen for the >converse claim, that .Net is more popular than Java. "Popularity" is the wrong word, "market penetration" would be more appropriate. The fact is that .NET is deployed to far more machines than is Java. CE, 2K, XP, 2003 and Vista all require .NET 1.1 and Vista also requires .NET 2.0 ... the runtimes are pushed out to the have-nots with critical system updates. The upshot is that most Windows systems in use can be depended on to have at least 1.1. CE, XP and 2003 are still under warranty so it will be only a matter of time before they will require a later version as well. George -- for email reply remove "/" from address >> Mr. X. wrote: >>>> Dotnet is more popular then Java [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > will be only a matter of time before they will require a later version > as well. Uh, yeah, good point. I was referring to the types of applications where one would have to choose between .Net and Java for, say, application development, though, not Windows internals direct from Microsoft. So "popularity" was the right word. SignatureLew >> Dotnet cost money, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You can use Eclipse to develop commercial applications without paying any > fee. Netbeans is also worth a try and costs the same as Eclipse. Not saying it's better, but I found it easier for some reason. > I would like to write a bussiness program, > and I am quite confused of what technology should I use. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The sale, will of course not be cheeper because of that fact, but will be as > the price as other simmiliar programs at the market. > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? I think you should start by researching a bit more. There are no such thing as a .NET operating system. .NET has become widely used, but Java is still more used in most countries. .NET does not cost money. Eclipse is one of the most powerfull IDE's around, so you can not get more. You can get Linux for free or pay if you prefer. .NET for Linux is via the Mono project (or DotGnu project). If you are Linux and Unix oriented you will probably be better of going with Java. Mono is following MS .NET similar to how gcj is following Sun Java. Arne > ... > (I live on Israel.... > ... > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? צדק צדק תרדוף SignatureJohn W. Kennedy A proud member of the reality-based community. > > ... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > John W. Kennedy > A proud member of the reality-based community. Translation, Mr. Kennedy por favor... si'l vous plait... per piachere... -RFH (J.W.K. writ) >> צדק צדק תרדוף ... >Translation, Mr. Kennedy ... When I copy pasted that exact string into a ..major search engine it produced exactly one hit, pointing to "The Israeli Government's Official Website, by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs", at <http://paris1.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/document.asp?DocumentID=85227&MissionID=31 It was the first part of a quote that was immediately followed by quoted text in English (presumably a translation). "Justice, justice you shall pursue, so that you may live and inherit the land." My guess is WTE of "justice you shall pursue". SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.physci.org/ > Dotnet is more popular than Java Not in Detroit. Not at NASA. Not in Mars. Not in embedded devices. Not in cell phones. Java is a programming language that can be used under .NET - why would anyone perform such travesty is beyond me. With Java you can target all operating systems, with .NET you are pretty much a prisoner of one OS and one company. Lame attempts such as Mono can be destroyed with the stroke of a key, Neely Kroes notwithstanding. -Ramon On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:26:35 +0200, "Mr. X." <no_spam_please@nospam_please.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? .net is single source. You are handing your balls to MS on a plate. If they want to charge more, drop support, or do a drastic redesign, or deliberately screw up non-Windows clients you must go with them. Microsoft has a long history of screwing its customers and competitors. They even have the legal right to pull the plug on Mono at any time. In any case, Mono is not a practical replacement. The main appeal of .net is the C# language, which is more programmer-friendly than Java. The main appeal of Java is it support from handhelds to mainframes with 256 CPUs. You have amazing scalability. You can develop on one size of machine and run on another. This is great if you don't have a firm handle on the loads you will have to support. You can start very cheaply and grow rapidly without recoding. Microsoft is a more likely target for a serious attack that puts it out of commission for months. You have seen the trouble even children have caused so far. SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com > I would like to write a bussiness program, > and I am quite confused of what technology should I use. The simplest criteria is this: use hammers for nails and screwdrivers for screws. Analyze what the requirements of the program are and find which language best suits it. > Dotnet platform, or Java (I mean - programming, not Dotnet operating > system). The proper term is .NET, I believe. .NET is not an operating system; it is closest in operation to the Java Virtual Machine: I believe your real question would be to choose between Visual Basic .NET, C#, or Java; do not forget, however, that other languages do exist (LISP, C++, Python, and Ruby, to name some of the more popular ones) which may be better suited to your environment. > Dotnet is more popular then Java > but Java still stands as good technology for multi-platform environment. > (I live on Israel, and I think the population of dotnet is more then Java). Most statistics I have seen show Java far outreaching C# or VB.NET or VC++.NET; I have not seen any regional breakdowns, so I do not know whether or not .NET is more popular in Israel or not, but I would tend to doubt it. > Dotnet cost money, and java is free (Eclipse is enough for my applications). > Is Java realy cheeper (Is there any fee I need to pay for Eclipse) ? At all levels of .NET and Java are the specifications open or mostly open; what one pays for is the development IDEs and runtime libraries (.NET's libraries are free for Windows, but the development is not; Java is free around the board [*]). > (Also, I want that my OS will be : linux - still of the fact that it is > free - is there any fee I need to pay for linux ?). Well, getting full .NET to work on Linux is not going to be happy sailing, but Linux is once again free (although Microsoft claims the total cost of ownership is more expensive than its software... your mileage may vary). > Why should I prefer Java and not dotnet ? > Why should I prefer dotnet and not java ? Quick--how many people here are going to go for Java over .NET? Ask the same question in a .NET forum and what will you find? There are clear biases in these newsgroup, and probably a moderate bias on Usenet in general, to favoring Java. Java is renowned for its multiplatform support, and, having worked with some of the core-ish guts of Java, is quite stable: a Java 1.1 program runs very well in Java 6, and a Java 6 program (given a backport of libraries) would, with little modification, run back on Java 1.1. .NET's main benefit is its integration with the Windows platform--any code that needs some specific assumptions on back-scene program would benefit from this integration; Java is the opposite in this regard: it takes the middle road as much as possible. [*] Free (gratis) here ("free as in bear", as some say). The cost is $0 but the source code is not entirely free for use. Well, Java 7 is different in this regard, but... SignatureBeware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. 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