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Java Forum / General / November 2007Strange applet behaviour on Windows XP
I previously posted this under a thread titled "JSE 6 Update N (Build 6) on XP" but I have now determined it has nothing to do with Update N per se and affects any version of Java 6. I find that the JVM starts up very quickly in the browser but the applet itself takes forever to load. It gets to "Applet inited" and stays there for a couple of minutes and then it's a few more minutes after "Applet started" before anything appears. This is with an applet that loads almost instantaneously under Vista or Server 2003. This behaviour is happening in both IE and Firefox. Has anyone experienced anything similar or have a solution?  SignatureAnd loving it, -Q _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com (Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me) ... >Has anyone experienced anything similar or have a solution? WEB START. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > .. >>Has anyone experienced anything similar or have a solution? > > WEB START. Not you and your bloody Web Start again! :-) Andrew, do I need to qualify every post I make with the line "JAWS is not an option for me - the software must run INSIDE the browser"? I know you don't like applets but I do and I would very much like to know why all applets are misbehaving on this particular machine. SignatureAnd loving it, -Q _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com (Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me) >> .. >>>Has anyone experienced anything similar or have a solution? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Andrew, do I need to qualify every post I make with the line "JAWS is not an >option for me - the software must run INSIDE the browser"? *Yes*! What? You expect me to specifically remember every person and the constraints of any particular project they are working on? I make scores of posts, across 3 regular, and many occasional groups, every week. Besides, what if someone *else* read your problem that had never heard of you. If *you* have been reading this forum as well as asking questions using it, you might have noticed a thread recently starting with 'applet' where the first three replies were the suggestion 'web start'. I was only responsible for one of those replies. I am not the only person who sees web start as a far superior way to launch applets. All it would take in each of your applet posts (for me to understand) is the single line "must be embedded in a web page". >..I know you don't >like applets but I do and I would very much like to know why all applets are >misbehaving on this particular machine. Try searching Sun's bug database first. Their own search is horridly slow, but try this alternate. <http://www.google.com/search?as_q=applet&as_sitesearch=bugs.sun.com> (Make it more specific, that is just a starting point.) With applets "Bug happens" - regularly. If it is not listed, it might be time (must be 'every other week') to add a new one. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > *Yes*! > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > If it is not listed, it might be time (must be 'every other > week') to add a new one. Andrew, your point is taken; I will always indicate that Web Start is not an option (where relevant) when posting from now on. However, the fact that someone else received 3 replies to their applet-related post suggesting Web Start as a solution has absolutely no bearing on my situation. I saw that post - it wasn't relevant. I do read this group as well as ask questions. To me, suggesting Web Start for an applet problem is like responding to someone who posts with a Swing-related problem with "Have you heard of SWT?" or vice versa. SignatureAnd loving it, -Q _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com (Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me) ... >To me, suggesting Web Start for an applet problem is like responding to >someone who posts with a Swing-related problem with "Have you heard of SWT?" >or vice versa. If SWT could fix a problem that was 'unfixable' in Swing I would say that myself. Are there any? I am more likely to point out to people that ask a question about *SWT*, that at least if they were asking about Swing, they might get some answers (see how many SWT threads transpire with no replies). The difference between 'Applet' and 'Web Start Applet' is much more profound though. Most of the questions about applets are along the lines 'how do you make an applet in XYZ browser do...?'. Having to account for the differences in the way that *browsers* interact with applets introduces a whole new level of problems, increased maintenance costs, headaches and heartaches. The very fact you would consider the decision between Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you have little idea just how bizarre, quixotic and problematic applets (in browsers) can be. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > The very fact you would consider the decision between > Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you > have little idea just how bizarre, quixotic and problematic > applets (in browsers) can be. Not quixotic, surely. Perhaps an applet developer is quixotic, but applets themselves seem more like the windmill. SignatureLew >> The very fact you would consider the decision between >> Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Not quixotic, surely. Perhaps an applet developer is quixotic, but applets >themselves seem more like the windmill. You are possibly correct in that applets are not Quixotic, though I cannot believe they are the windmill. If (water pumping) windmills were as problematic as applets, they'd have been replaced by a small dutch boy with a kite, that had a bucket attached to the bottom by a string. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ >>> The very fact you would consider the decision between >>> Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > have been replaced by a small dutch boy with a kite, that > had a bucket attached to the bottom by a string. I meant "windmill" as in "that at which Don Quixote tilted". SignatureLew >>>> The very fact you would consider the decision between >>>> Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I meant "windmill" as in "that at which Don Quixote tilted". Yeah.. I always just pictured him 'tilting' at those style of Dutch windmills they show in postcards and old movies. The Dutch are the only ones I know to have used those style of windmills with the very low sweeping blades. ( I mean trying to 'tilt' at an Australian style windmill would be ludicrous, the stick would not even reach the height of the smallish fan blades at the top of their tall tower.) So ..I always just pictured Don doin' his stuff in Holland. (shugs) What, was he South American? Was 'he' a woman? ( I never actually read the story.. ;) SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ Lew wrote: >> I meant "windmill" as in "that at which Don Quixote tilted". > Yeah.. I always just pictured him 'tilting' at those style > of Dutch windmills they show in postcards and old movies. > The Dutch are the only ones I know to have used those > style of windmills with the very low sweeping blades. All over Europe in Renaissance times they were like that. > ( I mean trying to 'tilt' at an Australian style windmill would a.k.a. a modern windmill. > be ludicrous, the stick would not even reach the height of > the smallish fan blades at the top of their tall tower.) > > So ..I always just pictured Don doin' his stuff in The Don. His name wasn't "Don", that was his title. It's similar to "Lord" as in "Lord Byron". > Holland. (shugs) What, was he South American? Spanish, 16th c. > Was 'he' a woman? ( I never actually read the story.. ;) A knight of the old order who had pain adapting to the modern world, with the death of chivalry and honor. <http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/c#a505> English translation: <http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/996> also EText numbers 7094, 5921, 5946 and others. 5921 and 5946 are from an edition illustrated by Gustave Doré. SignatureLew > The very fact you would consider the decision between > Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you > have little idea just how bizarre, quixotic and problematic > applets (in browsers) can be. Well I have encountered problems with applets and browsers but so far I see no real reason to abandon my quest to produce a really effective and powerful applet that doesn't force the user to leave the browser environment. Problematic they may be but I still love applets! SignatureAnd loving it, -Q _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com (Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me) >> The very fact you would consider the decision between >> Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > powerful applet that doesn't force the user to leave the browser > environment. Problematic they may be but I still love applets! I cannot run applets at all from Firefox on my 64b Fedora system. I can run Web Start apps. Applets suck. SignatureLew >>> The very fact you would consider the decision between >>> Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Applets suck. That's not the fault of the applets. It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of support for 64bit Linux. The same is true of web start on other platforms. SignatureNigel Wade, System Administrator, Space Plasma Physics Group, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH, UK E-mail : nmw@ion.le.ac.uk Phone : +44 (0)116 2523548, Fax : +44 (0)116 2523555 >> Applets suck. > That's not the fault of the applets. It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of > support for 64bit Linux. > > The same is true of web start on other platforms. This is true even when I try to run applets in 32b mode. I run JWS in 32b mode just fine. The problem here is due to how Firefox relates to Fedora, not the 64b issue. SignatureLew >>> Applets suck. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The problem here is due to how Firefox relates to Fedora, not the 64b issue. Really? I don't use Fedora, but I have two Sun servers here running 64bit RHEL4. I have installed 32bit Firefox (direct from Mozilla, not a RH package) and can use the Sun Java plugin to run applets. The first thing I do with RHEL (and Fedora when I used to run it) is throw away all the gcj and other non-Sun "java" which RH bundle. I don't mess with "alternatives", jpackage and all that nonsense as I don't consider there to be any alternative to the Sun Java platform. SignatureNigel Wade, System Administrator, Space Plasma Physics Group, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH, UK E-mail : nmw@ion.le.ac.uk Phone : +44 (0)116 2523548, Fax : +44 (0)116 2523555 Lew wrote: >> The problem here is due to how Firefox relates to Fedora, not the 64b issue. > Really? As best I can tell. I'm actually baffled by it. > I don't use Fedora, but I have two Sun servers here running 64bit RHEL4. I have > installed 32bit Firefox (direct from Mozilla, not a RH package) and can use the > Sun Java plugin to run applets. The first thing I do with RHEL (and Fedora when > I used to run it) is throw away all the gcj and other non-Sun "java" which RH > bundle. I don't mess with "alternatives", jpackage and all that nonsense as I > don't consider there to be any alternative to the Sun Java platform. I use 'alternatives' because I have 32b Java, 64b Java, Java 5 and an IBM Java on the same machine. It also helps during upgrades that I can keep one version back just in case. I just don't know how to get Firefox to recognize the plugin. I've followed various HOW-TOs to no avail. Eh, bien, I just use Windows when I want to view applets. SignatureLew > Lew wrote: >>> The problem here is due to how Firefox relates to Fedora, not the 64b [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Eh, bien, I just use Windows when I want to view applets. Lew, are you running F8? Did you do the Xinerama fix? Are you using FF 2.0.0.9? If all this has been discussed please disregard this post. SignatureKnute Johnson email s/nospam/knute/ > Lew, are you running F8? No, F7. Due to a hardware failure I do not have a working DVD ROM for a few days. > Did you do the Xinerama fix? No. Link? > Are you using FF 2.0.0.9? 2.0.0.8 SignatureLew >> Lew, are you running F8? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > 2.0.0.8 F7 is a little different. The Xinerama fix is specific to F8. With F7 or F8 and Sun's Java you need to have loaded compat-libstdc++-33. The plugin will show in 'about:plugins' but won't work without the library above. I really like using the JPackage RPMs to set up the alternatives. I've posted a page for setting up Sun Java on F8; http://knutejohnson.com/sun-java-on-F8.html I don't know why this has to be so hard but it is. You would think that Sun would help out a little and I guess they are with the open source business. F8 has icedtea, which is the open source Java. It's missing Java Sound but other than that seems to work although I'm having some applet problems with it. SignatureKnute Johnson email s/nospam/knute/ >>> Lew, are you running F8? >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Java Sound but other than that seems to work although I'm having some > applet problems with it. Quick question: When using alternatives, which "generic name" or names do I want to config? I think I just want "alternatives --config javac since I think that changes all the others too. I'm not sure and I'm not in a position to try it. -Wayne >>>> Lew, are you running F8? >>> No, F7. Due to a hardware failure I do not have a working DVD ROM for [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > -Wayne 'java' is what they all end up under. SignatureKnute Johnson email s/nospam/knute/ Wayne wrote: >> Quick question: When using alternatives, which "generic name" or names >> do I want to config? I think I just want "alternatives --config javac >> since I think that changes all the others too. I'm not sure and I'm >> not in a position to try it. > 'java' is what they all end up under. 'alternatives' /per se/ doesn't determine that. It's the name argument to the alternatives command that establishes the name. <http://www.linuxmanpages.com/man8/alternatives.8.php> When I've had to discover a name, I've found success with: # ls /var/lib/alternatives/ SignatureLew >>> Lew, are you running F8? >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > plugin will show in 'about:plugins' but won't work without the library > above. Ah, I'd not considered that possibility. I normally just run ldd against the plugin to see what libraries it needs and whether the run time linker can find them. libstdc++ is not shown as a specific dependency. However, I normally install the full development (including 32bit compatibility) and legacy software support package groups, part of which is this package. That's probably why the plugin works for me. > I really like using the JPackage RPMs to set up the alternatives. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sun would help out a little and I guess they are with the open source > business. There is no love lost between RedHat (the sponsors of Fedora) and Sun. Add to that that Fedora is strictly FOSS only (to the determent of the distro, IMHO) and won't entertain including Sun's Java until it is fully FOSS, there is little encouragement for Sun to assist in making their Java work on a platform which is (or was) anti-Sun. > F8 has icedtea, which is the open source Java. It's missing > Java Sound but other than that seems to work although I'm having some > applet problems with it. Does it have the same applet problems which make gcj untenable, principally that it has no security manager? I would like to see a single Java which all the Linux distros could package and maintain together. It would certainly help move toward the write once, run anywhere ideal which is supposed to be what Java is about. Hopefully this one step closer now that RedHat have signed up to Sun's OpenJDK agreement, and RedHat and Sun can pull in the same direction for a change. SignatureNigel Wade, System Administrator, Space Plasma Physics Group, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH, UK E-mail : nmw@ion.le.ac.uk Phone : +44 (0)116 2523548, Fax : +44 (0)116 2523555 ... >> Applets suck. > >That's not the fault of the applets. That is not really the point. >..It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of >support for 64bit Linux. What about .. - Sun's lack of support to get Java cleared for the latest XP security so trusted applets can again acces the local file-system? - Sun's lack of support for fixing the bug where some OS/FF combos. will cause a page reload on 'scroll-up'? - that applets take 'forever to load on' ..what was at the top of this thread - IE/XP? - ...and so on The real issue here, is Sun's support for applets at all. I think Sun now consider applets to have been a bad idea, and would deprecate them if they dared, but their lack of active support to fix the plethora of open applet bugs also says 'web start' to me. >The same is true of web start on other platforms. Huh? What is the 'same' with web start? It comes on different platforms? It is not suported on all platforms? It also has bugs/quirks? (I'd say 'yes' to all three of the above. But I am not sure what you are refering to.) SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > .. >>> Applets suck. >> >>That's not the fault of the applets. > > That is not really the point. It probably is in this instance. >>..It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of >>support for 64bit Linux. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of this thread - IE/XP? > - ...and so on What about them? That is not why the applets won't work in a 64bit web browser on Linux. > The real issue here, is Sun's support for applets at all. No, the real (and only) issue *here* is why applets won't run in a 64bit browser. > I think Sun now consider applets to have been a bad > idea, and would deprecate them if they dared, but their > lack of active support to fix the plethora of open applet > bugs also says 'web start' to me. But not for those users who cannot use Web Start because it's not supported on their platform. >>The same is true of web start on other platforms. > > Huh? What is the 'same' with web start? > It comes on different platforms? It is not suported > on all platforms? It also has bugs/quirks? (I'd say > 'yes' to all three of the above. But I am not sure > what you are refering to.) The lack of support on different platforms. Did I mention anything else? SignatureNigel Wade, System Administrator, Space Plasma Physics Group, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH, UK E-mail : nmw@ion.le.ac.uk Phone : +44 (0)116 2523548, Fax : +44 (0)116 2523555 > .. >>> Applets suck. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > 'yes' to all three of the above. But I am not sure > what you are refering to.) Actually, I have found Web Start to be quite problematic as well. My pet peeve is when you try to launch an application and after a few minutes a small window pops up (usually behind the browser where it is not visible) saying that the application failed to launch. It gives no details as to why and no remedial action can be taken. This has happened a number of times for me as I have tried to launch apps on various sites (but don't ask me to list them just now). SignatureAnd loving it, -Q _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com (Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me) >> .. >>>> Applets suck. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Actually, I have found Web Start to be quite problematic as well. "Actually, I have found applets to be quite problematic as well" >..My pet >peeve is when you try to launch an application and after a few minutes a >small window pops up (usually behind the browser where it is not visible) >saying that the application failed to launch. "My pet peeve is when ... small message appears in the browser status bar saying 'not inited'. That is *assuming* the browser status bar is configured to show at that moment.." >..It gives no details as to why >and no remedial action can be taken. 'ditto' (change JWS for applet) >..This has happened a number of times >for me as I have tried to launch apps on various sites (but don't ask me to >list them just now). 'ditto' (change JWS for applet) Now your excuses are becoming pathetic. Your statements apply to both, probably even more so to applets than JWS. There are remedies for both, mostly involved around, and in control of, the deployer. That is *you*. If you deploy a broken-a.s applet, JWS project, or 'plain jain' application, stuff will break, and in ways not immediately obvious to the user. *We* as developers can pop consoles for applets or JWS applications and send the trace level up to 5 to find out what is happening, if need be. During development is the time that should be done, to reduce the possibility of a 'no information crash and burn' once the app. goes public. If you want to pursue applets, fair enough. Just do not think that such pathetically silly comments will go unchallenged. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ [snip] > *We* as developers can pop consoles for applets or JWS > applications and send the trace level up to 5 to find out [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > not think that such pathetically silly comments will > go unchallenged. You have only confirmed my point: both JAWS and applets can be problematic. It depends entirely on the quality of the product. You cannot expect comments to the effect that Web Start is the bee's knees and applets are the axis of evil to go unchallenged. SignatureAnd loving it, -Q _________________________________________________ Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com (Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me) Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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