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Java Forum / General / October 2007

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parameter vs argument

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Roedy Green - 25 Oct 2007 16:38 GMT
Has anyone run across an official definition of argument and parameter
for Java?
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Daniel Dyer - 25 Oct 2007 17:13 GMT
> Has anyone run across an official definition of argument and parameter
> for Java?

Not specifically for Java, but the only interpretation I've seen that  
doesn't use the terms interchangeably is that an argument is a specific  
instance of a parameter.

E.g, in the following example, the parameter for doSomething is anInteger  
and the argument is 4.

public static void doSomething(int anInteger)
{
    System.out.println("The argument was " + anInteger);
}

public static void main(String[] s)
{
    doSomething(4);
}

Dan.

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Eric Sosman - 25 Oct 2007 17:29 GMT
Roedy Green wrote On 10/25/07 11:38,:
> Has anyone run across an official definition of argument and parameter
> for Java?

   JLS 8.4.1 defines "formal parameter" and refers to
"actual argument expressions" that supply the initial
values of the "parameter variables."  This is consistent
with the practice in some other languages: The parameter
is the local variable in the method/function/subroutine/
procedure/lambda expression/whatever, and the argument
is the caller-supplied value/reference/thingy.

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Roedy Green - 25 Oct 2007 18:45 GMT
>   JLS 8.4.1 defines "formal parameter" and refers to
>"actual argument expressions" that supply the initial
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>procedure/lambda expression/whatever, and the argument
>is the caller-supplied value/reference/thingy.

thanks.  I have written new entries for
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/parameters.html
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/arguments.html
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Wayne - 25 Oct 2007 23:15 GMT
>>   JLS 8.4.1 defines "formal parameter" and refers to
>> "actual argument expressions" that supply the initial
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/parameters.html
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/arguments.html

The terms are interchangeable.  But I'm sure we could
have a long parameter on this subject.

-Wayne
Andrew Thompson - 26 Oct 2007 05:19 GMT
...
>The terms are interchangeable.  But I'm sure we could
>have a long parameter on this subject.

(chuckle)

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Mark Space - 26 Oct 2007 05:43 GMT
> ..
>> The terms are interchangeable.  But I'm sure we could
>> have a long parameter on this subject.
>
> (chuckle)

Yeah that was a good one.  I was going to say that Java methods have
parameters and arguments are what we have here. ;-)
Lew - 26 Oct 2007 05:53 GMT
> Yeah that was a good one.  I was going to say that Java methods have
> parameters and arguments are what we have here. ;-)

Must ... not ... quote ... Monty Python ... ... must ... resist . .  .   .

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Lew

Andreas Leitgeb - 26 Oct 2007 09:12 GMT
>> Yeah that was a good one.  I was going to say that Java methods have
>> parameters and arguments are what we have here. ;-)
> Must ... not ... quote ... Monty Python ... ... must ... resist . .  .   .
no!
Andrew Thompson - 26 Oct 2007 13:15 GMT
>> Yeah that was a good one.  I was going to say that Java methods have
>> parameters and arguments are what we have here. ;-)
>
>Must ... not ... quote ... Monty Python ... ... must ... resist . .  .   .

I hate to admit this, but I am not entirely sure of the
Monty Python quote you are referring to, and I'm burning
with curiosity.

The only sketch I can think of that comes close, is the
'I want an argument' sketch.  

<poorly paraphrased MP>
"Oh, I'm sorry, ..you wanted an argument?  This is 'abuse'."
</poorly paraphrased MP>

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Lew - 26 Oct 2007 14:15 GMT
> The only sketch I can think of that comes close, is the
> 'I want an argument' sketch.  

You get the gold star.  That is the one that fits the parameters.

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Lew

Roedy Green - 26 Oct 2007 15:01 GMT
>You get the gold star.  That is the one that fits the parameters.

Who can quote the line from Star Trek?
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Andrew Thompson - 26 Oct 2007 15:21 GMT
>>You get the gold star.  That is the one that fits the parameters.
>
>Who can quote the line from Star Trek?

Who cares?  (I always hated Star Trek, such dweebie
"let's all get in touch with our inner feelings" crap that I
hoped the Klingons/Borg/'WhoCares?' would wipe the lot
of them out - they did not deserve to infest the universe
with 'Federation Dweebies').

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Daniel Pitts - 26 Oct 2007 17:40 GMT
>>> You get the gold star.  That is the one that fits the parameters.
>> Who can quote the line from Star Trek?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of them out - they did not deserve to infest the universe
> with 'Federation Dweebies').

You must be thinking of Star Trek: TNG.  The original star trek was all
about beating up aliens and wooing the girl.

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Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - 26 Oct 2007 16:27 GMT
>>You get the gold star.  That is the one that fits the parameters.
>
> Who can quote the line from Star Trek?

Beyond "Beam me up, Scotty", "Make it so", "Open hailing frequencies"
and "Fire photon torpedos"? :)

/L '*sing* We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill! *sing*'
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Wildemar Wildenburger - 27 Oct 2007 02:42 GMT
>> Who can quote the line from Star Trek?
>
> Beyond "Beam me up, Scotty"

Not a Star Trek quote.

/W
Lew - 27 Oct 2007 03:53 GMT
>>> Who can quote the line from Star Trek?
>>
>> Beyond "Beam me up, Scotty"
>
> Not a Star Trek quote.

Probably the most common /Star Trek/ misquote, and one of the more common
misquotes out there.  As a misquote, it's up there with "Play it again, Sam,"
not actually from /Casablanca/.

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Lew

Ben Phillips - 29 Oct 2007 00:25 GMT
> Probably the most common /Star Trek/ misquote, and one of the more
> common misquotes out there.  As a misquote, it's up there with "Play it
> again, Sam," not actually from /Casablanca/.

Let's not forget "What are you doing, Dave?" ...
Andrew Thompson - 26 Oct 2007 15:09 GMT
>> The only sketch I can think of that comes close, is the
>> 'I want an argument' sketch.  
>
>You get the gold star.  

Thanks!  That is much more validation than any ..
<dws>Google groups 'rating'</dws>.

But I am surprised that ..an *American* * would have
such arcane knowledge of Monty Python!  It is good
to post to these international newsgroups, if only to
dispell such 'colloquial myths'!

* My apologies for my amazement, but I thought Monty
Python's appeal was limited to those English speaking
countries that were 'not America'. I had suspected the
MP humor to be 'beyond them' ( thank you for pointing
out the - ..naivety of my ways ;).

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Daniel Pitts - 26 Oct 2007 17:39 GMT
>>> The only sketch I can think of that comes close, is the
>>> 'I want an argument' sketch.  
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> MP humor to be 'beyond them' ( thank you for pointing
> out the - ..naivety of my ways ;).

Monty Python is quite popular here actually.  Although it does kind of
have a niche following.  Some might even say that social misfits enjoy
MP more than the rest.  Personally, that either makes them wrong or me a
social misfit (or both, possibly).

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John W. Kennedy - 26 Oct 2007 18:55 GMT
>>> The only sketch I can think of that comes close, is the
>>> 'I want an argument' sketch.  
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> MP humor to be 'beyond them' ( thank you for pointing
> out the - ..naivety of my ways ;).

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Travis James - 26 Oct 2007 19:23 GMT
> * My apologies for my amazement, but I thought Monty
> Python's appeal was limited to those English speaking
> countries that were 'not America'. I had suspected the
> MP humor to be 'beyond them' ( thank you for pointing
> out the - ..naivety of my ways ;).

I had never thought about how a Brit might think Americans take Monty
Python. It's not at all uncommon at a gathering/cocktail party for a
group of men (never women that I've seen) take some topic and twist it
into some MP skit or movie scene.

MP fans I know seem to cut their teeth on Holy Grail or Meaning of Life
before fully appreciating Life of Brian or episodes of MP's Flying
Circus. (Never saw Jabberwocky.)

-- TJ (Californian)
Lew - 26 Oct 2007 19:36 GMT
>> * My apologies for my amazement, but I thought Monty
>> Python's appeal was limited to those English speaking
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> before fully appreciating Life of Brian or episodes of MP's Flying
> Circus. (Never saw Jabberwocky.)

I remember how impressed I was that /Matching Tie and Handkerchief/ was a
3-sided LP pressed onto a single disc of vinyl.

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Lew

John W. Kennedy - 26 Oct 2007 20:17 GMT
> I remember how impressed I was that /Matching Tie and Handkerchief/ was
> a 3-sided LP pressed onto a single disc of vinyl.

We had a 12-sided LP by Henny Youngman when I was a kid. Six sides were
a horse race and the other six sides were a car race. You could bet on it.

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John W. Kennedy - 26 Oct 2007 20:15 GMT
>> * My apologies for my amazement, but I thought Monty
>> Python's appeal was limited to those English speaking
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> before fully appreciating Life of Brian or episodes of MP's Flying
> Circus. (Never saw Jabberwocky.)

Anyway, "Monty Python" is too easy. I know people, fellow Yanks, who can
jump straight into "The Frog and Peach", taking either side.

Some of us can even do, "Eccles, what time is it?"

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Eric Sosman - 27 Oct 2007 04:16 GMT
>>> * My apologies for my amazement, but I thought Monty
>>> Python's appeal was limited to those English speaking
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Some of us can even do, "Eccles, what time is it?"

    ... and here is a photograph of me saying it.  Ying-tong
iddle-eye-poh!

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Andrew Thompson - 27 Oct 2007 01:29 GMT
>> * My apologies for my amazement, but I thought Monty
>> Python's appeal was limited to those English speaking
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I had never thought about how a Brit might think Americans take Monty
>Python. ...

Keep thinking.  I'm an 'Aussie'.   ;-)

And in response to the comment by another person to the
effect that MP fans are considered slightly 'off-beat' in
America - I can confirm the same is true in Australia, at
the very least.

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Sherman Pendley - 27 Oct 2007 00:00 GMT
> But I am surprised that ..an *American* * would have
> such arcane knowledge of Monty Python!

Back in the 70s, the PBS here in the US used to rebroadcast several hours
of BBC programming each week. Even living on a farm in the sticks, I still
got to see Monty Python, Doctor Who, The Prisoner, Hitch Hiker's Guide to
the Galaxy (TV & radio versions), and others.

sherm--

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Roedy Green - 27 Oct 2007 00:51 GMT
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:00:04 -0400, Sherman Pendley
<spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>Back in the 70s, the PBS here in the US used to rebroadcast several hours
>of BBC programming each week. Even living on a farm in the sticks, I still
>got to see Monty Python, Doctor Who, The Prisoner, Hitch Hiker's Guide to
>the Galaxy (TV & radio versions), and others.

A guy named Sandy Middleton lived in our house back in the 70s.  He
claimed he did some writing for the Pythons.  He kept me howling with
his practical jokes.

We did a series of Pythonesque sketches about gay lib and put them on
industrial strength telephone answering machine than ran night and day
solidly.
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Eric Sosman - 27 Oct 2007 04:12 GMT
>>> The only sketch I can think of that comes close, is the
>>> 'I want an argument' sketch.  
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> MP humor to be 'beyond them' ( thank you for pointing
> out the - ..naivety of my ways ;).

    Monty Python is in fact beyond the grasp of Americans.
But our fingernails scrape up a little of the varnish as
we grasp desperately for the prize just out of our reach,
and the gunk under our nails is so much more entertaining
than any local product that we think we've seen the joke.

    Spam (ha-ha!) Spam (hee-hee!) Spam (ho-ho-ho!) Spam
(Why do I feel hungry?)  Fish-slapping dance?  (Hunh?  Oh,
right: The fish is made of Spam!  Hahahahahaha!)

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