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Java Forum / General / November 2007Which is better for JME devel: Netbeans or Eclipse?
For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans or Eclipse? On Oct 23, 6:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans > or Eclipse? It doesn't matter. Your talent influences your results much more than any IDE. On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans > or Eclipse? I agreed with "Hunter Gratzner". IDE shouldn't matter. If you are comfortable with either of those, then use it. There have a lot of support available out there. But my favorite is Eclipse. :) > On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > comfortable with either of those, then use it. There have a lot of > support available out there. But my favorite is Eclipse. :) What is with all these people trying to start Editor Wars? If you can't program using Ant and either vi or emacs (or other raw text editor) on the command line, you won't be able to use any IDE effectively. If we were Sensei Miyagi we'd make all new programmers use only command-line tools for the first year.  SignatureLew "Wax on, wax off!" > On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > comfortable with either of those, then use it. There have a lot of > support available out there. But my favorite is Eclipse. :) I can see what you are getting at. I agree. So now that I have picked on (Netbeans... and you were right, good support is out there, too! :)), my next question is how do you deploy your JME apps so your mobile phone can run them? So far, I have a web server and installed the JAD/JAR Mime types. What do you do to make your stuff work? On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans > or Eclipse? For smaller projects, homeworks, etc. use NetBeans. For larger projects, with team members, use Eclipse. Since both come from the same source (Sun), NetBeans has a tight integration with OpenOffice. Instead of using the plain vanilla Eclipse, I would recommend the Turbo JBuilder with is based, and builds upon (the download size is twice) Eclipse. I recently downloaded and am very impressed with IntelliJ IDEA (it costs money, though). Then there is the issue of whether you need to do any graphical editing: that brings a whole set of considerations (aka can of worms). Since I can't decide, I have decided to keep and use all of the above. What I did was to keep all my source code in its own directory, separate from Eclipse's "workspace" and other IDE-specific project, build and dist directories. -Ramon > For smaller projects, homeworks, etc. use NetBeans. > > For larger projects, with team members, use Eclipse. Do you mean specifically for JME? I use NetBeans on team projects, including rather large ones, all the time. Why in the world would you limit it to small projects? SignatureLew > > For smaller projects, homeworks, etc. use NetBeans. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Lew NetBeans has a definite possibility or disappearing, with Sun joining the Eclipse bandwagon. The converse scenario (Eclipse joining the NB bandwagon) is precisely zero. NetBeans has behind the support of one important company. Eclipse has behind it: - IBM - Oracle - RedHat - SAP - Borland - Intel - Nokia - Wind River - BEA - Adobe - HP Eclipse can be grown with expensive upgrade path such as JBuilder Enterprise. There is no such upgrade path for NetBeans. I just wish Sun would contribute things like Matisse to Eclipse. -Ramon Hi Ramon, >I just wish Sun would contribute things like Matisse to Eclipse. Actually, I don't know if you've seen it, but guys at MyEclipse (www.myeclipseide.com) have ported Matisse to (My)Eclipse. The whole team has a license for a few months now and it's working fine. Actually, ported Matisse was THE reason why we bought it. Unfortunatelly, Matisse itself is a huge Eclipse distribution so you need a lot of RAM and it just dies in pain every now and then, but putting that aside and we have used Matisse on MyEclipse successfuly for very complicated UIs and it is working very well. Regards, Bozo Juretic Signaturewww.onlineos-network.com > Hi Ramon, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > --www.onlineos-network.com Hi BJ: We have Matisse on Eclipse? That's really good news. About your lack of performance: could it be that your PC is underpowered? Is it recent? The sudden death is even more troublesome. You are probably running Windows, right? The one thing I don't like about Matisse is its unidirectionality. I just downloaded (haven't tried it yet) WindowBuilder: http://www.windowbuilderpro.com/ I hear that it is really good, bidirectional (as far as such thing is possible) and therefore it can read and parse Java source code written by other visual builders. The solution to the visual design ordeal will be provided (hopefully soon!) by the standardization of the *.form file format. -Ramon Hi Ramon! >> >I just wish Sun would contribute things like Matisse to Eclipse. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> putting that aside and we have used Matisse on MyEclipse successfuly >> for very complicated UIs and it is working very well. >Hi BJ: > >We have Matisse on Eclipse? That's really good news. Yup, I was also delighted to find it. :) >About your lack of performance: could it be that your PC is >underpowered? Is it recent? The sudden death is even more troublesome. >You are probably running Windows, right? I have a tipfeller in my post, I wanted to say that MyEclipse is huge (my myeclipse folder has 1,11 GB, that's without any workspaces), not Matisse. The main problem is that the whole MyEclipse thing freezes every now and then, and then it locks everything, which is pretty annoying. My colleagues have the same problem, so it's not just me. But, we are still using MyEclipse with integrated Matisse and we like it a lot. When it comes to Matisse itself the only problem it has is that if you are designing frantically as we are, moving things around all the time as if you had Photoshop before you and not Swing editor, and otherwise being extremely un-friendly with Matisse, the design breaks every now and then. On a few occasions we had to recreate the design in a new file and start from there, because Matisse had its own bugs, and the original design was unusable (i.e. if you moved something, it behaved in an unexpected way). But don't get me wrong - Matisse is great and if you need to make GUIs in Swing, I absolutely encourage you to use it, as it is the best Swing designer I know of, and I've tried alot of them before switching to Matisse. >The one thing I don't like about Matisse is its unidirectionality. You can't have it all. :) >I just downloaded (haven't tried it yet) WindowBuilder: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >possible) and therefore it can read and parse Java source code written >by other visual builders. >The solution to the visual design ordeal will be provided (hopefully >soon!) by the standardization of the *.form file format. Let's wait and see. Personally I think this whole UI thing is heading in a different direction; I think the industry is heading towards Silverlight-like, JavaFX-like, Flash/Flex-like multi-channel paradigms, where the existing UI technologies will just be parts of a larger puzzle. Some call it Web 3.0, I think of it in terms of massive, multi-channel Internet services delivery platforms. Regards, Bozo Juretic Signaturewww.onlineos-network.com Hi Ramon, >I just wish Sun would contribute things like Matisse to Eclipse. Actually, I don't know if you've seen it, but guys at MyEclipse (www.myeclipseide.com) have ported Matisse to (My)Eclipse. The whole team has a license for a few months now and it's working fine. Actually, ported Matisse was THE reason why we bought it. Unfortunatelly, MyEclipse itself is a huge Eclipse distribution so you need a lot of RAM and it just dies in pain every now and then, but putting that aside we have used Matisse on MyEclipse successfuly for very complicated UIs and it is working remarkably well. Regards, Bozo Juretic Signaturewww.onlineos-network.com > NetBeans has a definite possibility or disappearing, with Sun joining > the Eclipse bandwagon. Citations? SignatureLew > > For smaller projects, homeworks, etc. use NetBeans. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Lew You do tea projects on NetBeans for JME! Cool! I decided to go NetBeans as well. I'd configured my webserver's Mime to support JAD and JAR, but I am not sure how to deploy my MIDlet to my handset. Could you share how you and your team do it? On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans > or Eclipse? For smaller projects, homeworks, etc. use NetBeans. For larger projects, with team members, use Eclipse. Since both come from the same source (Sun), NetBeans has a tight integration with OpenOffice. Instead of using the plain vanilla Eclipse, I would recommend the Turbo JBuilder which is based, and builds upon (the download size is twice as big) Eclipse. I recently downloaded and am very impressed with IntelliJ IDEA (it costs money, though). Then there is the issue of whether you need to do any graphical editing: that brings a whole set of considerations (aka can of worms). Since I can't decide, I have decided to keep and use all of the above. What I did was to keep all my source code in its own directory, separate from Eclipse's "workspace" and other IDE-specific project, build and dist directories. -Ramon On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans > or Eclipse? NetBeans is more Swing oriented, while Eclipse prefers SWT. -RFH > NetBeans is more Swing oriented, while Eclipse prefers SWT. Correct. SWT is IBM's graphics component library, and Eclipse is their open-source IDE. SignatureLew >> NetBeans is more Swing oriented, while Eclipse prefers SWT. > > Correct. SWT is IBM's graphics component library, and Eclipse is their > open-source IDE. The people who developed Eclipse may well prefer SWT to Swing but, as a user of Eclipse, I can detect no bias against using it to develop Swing apps - am I missing something? >On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans >> or Eclipse? > >NetBeans is more Swing oriented, while Eclipse prefers SWT. Does SWT provide classes for J2ME apps.? Anyway, irrespective of that.. That would tend* to make me prefer NetBeans over Eclipse (I do a lot of GUIs intended for 'home users'). 1) Very few people (around here) understand SWT well enough to answer technical questions on SWT. 2) End users do not want to suffer the hit of downloading (?) Mbytes of SWT API on top of the JVM. The only other things that would be immediately important** to me are, memory/CPU footprint and ability to refactor. The footprint of either is too great for this poor old dev. PC I use. As far as refactoring goes, I understand Eclipse is somewhat legendary (some people 'swear by it'), while NetBeans is ..(dunno') ..Lew? But ultimately I agree with the 'understand Java first' comment, most. The more bells and whistles an IDE has, the faster it can lead you right up the garden path, through the gate and out into the wild wilderness. * I actually use Ant and TextPad . ** Dev. tools have to be 'free for any use I see fit'. But that pretty much goes without saying around here, doesn't it? People who mention commercial products feel compelled to almost ..'apologise' for doing so. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > >On Oct 23, 12:15 am, "tetsu...@gmail.com" <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Message posted via JavaKB.comhttp://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1 Andrew & Lew (and others): Allow me to revert the question. I realize that one should pick and IDE and dedicate time and effort to learn it well, to have most projects consolidated in the same IDE. Having said that... why would anyone not have both Eclipse and NetBeans installed in their machine? One should have at least a cursory knowledge of their secondary (or tertiary) IDE, shouldn't one? -Ramon > Allow me to revert the question. I realize that one should pick and > IDE and dedicate time and effort to learn it well, to have most [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > One should have at least a cursory knowledge of their secondary (or > tertiary) IDE, shouldn't one? Absolutely! I have for years used both NB and Eclipse, frequently on the same project for the same code artifacts. SignatureLew On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:15:44 -0000, "tetsuoni@gmail.com" <tetsuoni@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : >For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans >or Eclipse? Picking an IDE is like picking a wife. One just feels better to YOU. Most of it is a matter of familiarity. Any tool you know inside out will feel better than one you are just evaluating. You can try out the 3 major IDEs, Netbeans, Eclipse and IntelliJ free. see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html SignatureRoedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com On Nov 5, 2:41 pm, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:15:44 -0000, "tetsu...@gmail.com" > <tetsu...@gmail.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who > said : > > >For JME/J2ME development, which devel environment is better? Netbeans > >or Eclipse? > Picking an IDE is like picking a wife. I'd say that it is like picking which one is going to be the wife and which ones the royal concubines... :-) -RFH ps: My computer is like a harem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem Wow! This is great! We have a lot of experienced JME developers on this thread. So now that I have picked on (Netbeans... and you were right, good support is out there, too! :)), my next question is how do you deploy your JME apps so your mobile phone can run them? So far, I have a web server and installed the JAD/JAR Mime types. What do you do to make your stuff work? Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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