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Java Forum / General / October 2007

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which java version on PCs?

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patrick - 18 Oct 2007 22:59 GMT
Do most people who already have a jre installed have the latest 1.6 version
or do u think most would still be on 1.5 or less?

Im wondering what minimum version to require on for my free download java
application.

If very few have 1.6 it would be slower/tedious to force them install 1.6

TIA
Joshua Cranmer - 18 Oct 2007 23:17 GMT
> Do most people who already have a jre installed have the latest 1.6 version
> or do u think most would still be on 1.5 or less?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> TIA

1. Do not multipost. It is very bad for several reasons, as any number
of guides can easily tell you.

When it comes to JREs, there is no real reason why any end-user should
not be using Java 6; anything Java 1.3 or before is completely
unacceptable, as they are not supported, and Java 1.4 is nearing
end-of-life.

Generally, it is safe to assume that whoever is running you application
is using at least Java 1.4, and more often Java 5/6. I would bite the
bullet and start using Java 6 as the minimum version. If they don't have
it, your application is as good a time to force them to upgrade as any
other.

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Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

patrick - 19 Oct 2007 09:47 GMT
Thanks for the respones.

1.   I will multipost when i think it is sensible to do so.
After 4 hours there was no response on com.lang.java.help (and still no
response today) so I then posted here. It makes sense to post somewhere
there is a likelyhood of responses such as here.

2. I am inclined to go with Arnes advice and stick with jre1.5   I will lose
a lot of potential users if I force them to download an extra 13MB .They may
abandon or get confused in the process.
Lew - 19 Oct 2007 12:43 GMT
> Thanks for the respones [sic].
>
> 1.   I will multipost when i think it is sensible to do so.

Arrogant.

> After 4 hours there was no response on com.lang.java.help [sic] (and still no

Impatient.

> response today) so I then posted here. It makes sense to post somewhere
> there is a likelyhood of responses such as here.

Not true.  Multiposting only irritates the people who would help you.  Your
rudeness even more so.  Don't you realize it's the same people reading both
groups?

> 2. I am inclined to go with Arnes advice and stick with jre1.5   I will lose
> a lot of potential users if I force them to download an extra 13MB .They may
> abandon or get confused in the process.

Yet you ignored, nay, excoriated Joshua's advice.

Do not multipost.  How about you read the FAQ for these two (related) groups,
and the online material regarding netiquette before you go all prima donna on
us, hm?

Signature

Lew

Andrew Thompson - 19 Oct 2007 13:44 GMT
...
>...Multiposting only irritates the people who would help you. ...

I am very tempted to ignore the OPs posts until such
times as they realise that strategy will not be optimal
to resolving the problem(s).

A message can be x-posted if it is really that important.

*Please* refrain from multi-posting in future.

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Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

patrick - 19 Oct 2007 15:38 GMT
It is arrogant to give clearly unnecessary lectures on multiposting.

>> Thanks for the respones [sic].
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> groups, and the online material regarding netiquette before you go all
> prima donna on us, hm?
Andrew Thompson - 19 Oct 2007 15:47 GMT
>It is arrogant to give clearly unnecessary lectures on multiposting.

<whatever>yeah - sure it is.</whatever>

..Plonk.

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Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

RedGrittyBrick - 19 Oct 2007 19:24 GMT
> It is arrogant to give clearly unnecessary lectures on multiposting.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing
Lew - 19 Oct 2007 20:24 GMT
> It is arrogant to give clearly unnecessary lectures on multiposting.

PLONK!

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Lew

Daniel Pitts - 21 Oct 2007 03:38 GMT
>> It is arrogant to give clearly unnecessary lectures on multiposting.
>
> PLONK!

Wow, patrick, you just lost *two* great resources in this group *and*
cljh.  Hope your pride was worth it.

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Daniel Pitts' Tech Blog: <http://virtualinfinity.net/wordpress/>

Roedy Green - 21 Oct 2007 07:30 GMT
>> response today) so I then posted here. It makes sense to post somewhere
>> there is a likelyhood of responses such as here.
>
>Not true.  Multiposting only irritates the people who would help you.  Your
>rudeness even more so.  Don't you realize it's the same people reading both
>groups?

Dear O.P.

In the Java groups the nearly all the people who help with question
monitor all the groups.  It helps to keep questions in slots to make
them easier to find and to use the appropriate vocabulary in
answering. You answer in a quite a different way for the same question
posted in comp.lang.java.help than comp.lang.java.databases.

Further I suspect you don't know the difference between crossposting
(mildly wicked in the Java group) and multiposting (Bush evil).

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/crossposting.html
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/multiposting.html
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Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Eric Sosman - 19 Oct 2007 17:47 GMT
patrick wrote On 10/19/07 04:47,:
> Thanks for the respones.
>
> 1.   I will multipost when i think it is sensible to do so.

   Fine; there are few enforceable rules here.  There are,
however, widely-accepted norms of "good conduct," and you
do yourself no favors by departing from them too vigorously.
After all, you're looking for help -- and if you make the
potential helpers angry at you, what effect do you suppose
that has on the quantity and quality of help you'll receive?

> After 4 hours there was no response on com.lang.java.help (and still no
> response today) so I then posted here.

   Usenet is not a chat room.  Not only is the propagation
irregular, but the participants are on no particular schedule
either.  We read when we feel like it, we read only the posts
we feel like reading, and we respond to only a tiny fraction
of those posts.  (Yes, "tiny" -- otherwise, the entire Net
would sink under the weight of replies to just one post.)

   My own reasons for not answering?  Simple: I didn't have
the data you asked for.  I suspect *nobody* has the data you
asked for, and that it would take several man-years and a
substantial outlay of money to get the data -- which would
be out of date before you got it.  With the question as you
asked it, you could only expect to get anecdotes and/or
silence, the latter being more informative.

   You need to ask better questions.  Oh, and to exercise
more patience.

   On those rare occasions when you feel the need to re-
issue a query that has languished (and the occasions had
better be rare, in view of the first point above), at least
preface the re-posting with an explanation: "I asked this
a few days ago on alt.swedish.chef but the only replies I
got were meatball recipes, so I'm trying here."  This gives
the reader two useful pieces of information: First, that
he's not being suckered into posting to an already-bifurcated
thread, and second, that a question he may have skipped a
few days ago is still pending and may warrant a second look.
(Or not; as I said earlier, it's all voluntary.)

> It makes sense to post somewhere
> there is a likelyhood of responses such as here.

   If all you want is response volume, post to porn groups,
music-piracy groups, conspiracy-theory groups, and so on.
You'll get all the volume you could possibly want, including
some really lucrative investment advice to help defray the
cost of all those "enhancement" pills.

> 2. I am inclined to go with Arnes advice and stick with jre1.5   I will lose
> a lot of potential users if I force them to download an extra 13MB .They may
> abandon or get confused in the process.

   ... and you will lose a lot of potential helpers if you
get into their killfiles.  If four hours of silence disturbed
you so, how would you react to being ignored altogether?

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Eric.Sosman@sun.com

patrick - 19 Oct 2007 19:17 GMT
jre 1.6 dynamically bundled if jre is needed and a minimum version to run of
jre1.5
The two posters on the topic understood my problem as stated  and  gave
their views which I found useful and to the point.
That was enough for me to make a decision. Arne's in particular.
patrick

> patrick wrote On 10/19/07 04:47,:
>> Thanks for the respones.
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> get into their killfiles.  If four hours of silence disturbed
> you so, how would you react to being ignored altogether?
Daniel Pitts - 21 Oct 2007 03:35 GMT
> Thanks for the respones.
>
> 1.   I will multipost when i think it is sensible to do so.
> After 4 hours there was no response on com.lang.java.help (and still no
> response today) so I then posted here. It makes sense to post somewhere
> there is a likelyhood of responses such as here.
As an alternative to multiposting, replying to yourself in a cross post
is a good way to expand the audience. This keeps the threads connected,
and gives you what you want.

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Daniel Pitts' Tech Blog: <http://virtualinfinity.net/wordpress/>

Andrew Thompson - 21 Oct 2007 04:06 GMT
>> Thanks for the respones.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>is a good way to expand the audience. This keeps the threads connected,
>and gives you what you want.

A 'reply to' x-post is a far better strategy.  I have done
that myself (without complaint from other contributors).

I would usually go the extra step of adding at the very top, WTE
"Note: x-posted to comp.lang.java.programmer & c.l.j.help
with follow-ups set to c.l.h.help only.  Please set follow-ups
as you see fit."

Though some people object to any 'follow-up to' being set,
and others might set the follow-ups to silly (troll, or entirely
off-topic) groups.

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Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Steve Sobol - 21 Oct 2007 04:47 GMT
>> Thanks for the respones.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> is a good way to expand the audience. This keeps the threads connected,
> and gives you what you want.

Patrick,

Expecting a response within four hours from a forum where 100% of the
people are VOLUNTEERING information is stupid. If you want answers, in a
specific time frame, ESPECIALLY within a few hours, either do a better job
of searching for the answers on your own, or pay someone.

No one is obligated to an SLA on Usenet.

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Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA     PGP:0xE3AE35ED  www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-al9oct09,1,5871580.story

Arne Vajhøj - 19 Oct 2007 00:10 GMT
> Do most people who already have a jre installed have the latest 1.6 version
> or do u think most would still be on 1.5 or less?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> If very few have 1.6 it would be slower/tedious to force them install 1.6

A lot of people run old Java versions.

If you want your app to be widely used and there are no need for
features in newer versions, then you should go for 1.5 - possible
even 1.4.2, but 1.5 is 3 years old now, so it would be reasonable
to expect.

Arne
Roedy Green - 21 Oct 2007 14:12 GMT
>If very few have 1.6 it would be slower/tedious to force them install 1.6

I tend to go for 1.5 since for:each and generics are so appealing.
Nothing in 1.6 is a must have for most projects.

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Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com



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