Java Forum / General / September 2007
Post not appear on group "comp.lang.java.programmer"
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 08:40 GMT >From last to two days i trying to post one message but after submitting post it show me "Your message will appear in comp.lang.java.programmer momentarily."
But couldn't found it on Group "comp.lang.java.programmer" .
Subject of my post are
1> Display Hindi Text on JSP using Resource Bundle. 2> Internationalization and localization.
Why it is happening.
Thanks...
Ishwor Gurung - 23 Aug 2007 08:55 GMT >>From last to two days i trying to post one message but after > submitting post it show me > "Your message will appear in comp.lang.java.programmer > momentarily." > > But couldn't found it on Group "comp.lang.java.programmer" . Hey hi, are you using Google groups or Newsgroup ?
 Signature Cheers, Ishwor Gurung /* humpty dumpty */
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 08:57 GMT Google Groups
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 09:08 GMT > are you using Google groups or Newsgroup ? I am using Google Groups.
Is there any alternate way to post message to "comp.lang.java.programmer".
Thanks...
Ishwor Gurung - 23 Aug 2007 09:22 GMT >> are you using Google groups or Newsgroup ? > I am using Google Groups. > > Is there any alternate way to post message to > "comp.lang.java.programmer". Yes. usenet. If you can get hold of a news server that is. Your ISP may have one. ask them. otherwise there are numerous free ones out there. Googling will assist you on this one.
 Signature Cheers, Ishwor Gurung /* humpty dumpty */
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 09:44 GMT Thanks every one... well i want to discuss my problem/query. How can i discuss with Group's people.
Ishwor Gurung - 23 Aug 2007 10:04 GMT > Thanks every one... > well i want to discuss my problem/query. > How can i discuss with Group's people. Hey hi, You are discussing. :-) Just be polite and try to be little more descriptive when you ask otherwise people won't be able to understand what you're trying to solve. Lot of people here recommend looking up "how to ask smart question by ESR this that.." etc... but I think at the end of the day, it all boils down to being friendly and using some common sense when asking question.
Note that usenet can be very unfriendly place at times with all kinds of _words_ flying around.
HTH
 Signature Cheers, Ishwor Gurung /* humpty dumpty */
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 10:21 GMT My last message was incomplete and unfortunately it was submitted. Actually in last message I want to ask that can we discuss on "Internationalization and Localization" and I mentioned in my first message that I was am not able to post my "Internationalization and Localization" problem/query.
Thanks...
Andrew Thompson - 23 Aug 2007 10:24 GMT >> are you using Google groups or Newsgroup ? >I am using Google Groups. > >Is there any alternate way to post message to >"comp.lang.java.programmer". Besides the 'ISP' suggested by the other replier, there are also other ways to post to the c.l.j.* hierarchy of groups via the *web*.
The WITUN* I use, allows posting to the major Java groups. See my sig. for links.
* Web Interface to UseNet.
 Signature Andrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 10:30 GMT Thanks...
Display Hindi Text on JSP using Resource Bundle
I trying to display Hindi Text on jsp page using resource bundle and properties file but its not showing hindi text.
text look like :-> ?? ????????????
I kept all properties file in classes folder.
My JSP code :-> <%@page pageEncoding="UTF-8"%> <%@ page contentType="text/html; charset=UTF-8" language="java" import="java.sql.*" errorPage="" %> <%@ page import = "java.util.*" %> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http:// www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <title>Localization</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> <title>Untitled Document</title> </head> <body> Hindi content
<div style="display:block; position:absolute; width:500px; height: 500px; background:#FFCCCC; left: 234px; top: 49px;"> <% try{ String language; String country; language = new String("hi"); country = new String("IN");
Locale currentLocale; ResourceBundle messages; currentLocale = new Locale(language, country); messages = ResourceBundle.getBundle("MessagesBundle",currentLocale);
out.println(messages.getString("greetings"));
out.println(messages.getString("inquiry"));
out.println(messages.getString("farewell")); }catch(Exception ex){ System.out.println("***exception***:-> "+ex); } %> </div> </body> </html>
MessagesBundle.properties file :-> greetings = Hello. farewell = Goodbye. inquiry = How are you?
MessagesBundle_hi_IN.properties file :-> greetings = farewell = . inquiry = !
Roedy Green - 23 Aug 2007 12:01 GMT >I trying to display Hindi Text on jsp page using resource bundle and >properties file but its not showing hindi text. > >text look like :-> >¤® à¤à¤ªà¤·à¥ You probably don't have the Hindi-supporting font installed, or your program did not specify one. I'd be surprised if the default Dialog font supports Hindi. It is does have quite wide Unicode support though.
To sort out whether the problem is the properties file or the environment, try printing some Hindi with
JTextField f = new JTextField( "\uxxxxu\xxxx" ); f.setFont ( some hindi-supporting font...)
etc. using some hand-coded Hindi.
 Signature Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com
Roedy Green - 23 Aug 2007 12:13 GMT On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:01:57 GMT, Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> I'd be surprised if the default Dialog >font supports Hindi. It is does have quite wide Unicode support >though. I just checked with the FontShower and FontShowerAWT applets. All the Sun fonts DO support Hindi or Devanagari as the Unicode people call it.
see http://mindprod.com/applet/fontshower.html http://mindprod.com/applet/fontshowerawt.html
 Signature Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com
Roedy Green - 23 Aug 2007 12:22 GMT On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:01:57 GMT, Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>You probably don't have the Hindi-supporting font installed, or your >program did not specify one. I'd be surprised if the default Dialog >font supports Hindi. It is does have quite wide Unicode support >though. you might try running the FontShower applet on the machine in question to see if it can display the Hindi character "\u0921"
see http://mindprod.com/applet/fontshower.html
 Signature Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 12:51 GMT Thanks for your reply...
Yes applet is showing Hindi Font and when I try out.println(\u0921) it showing on JSP. That means there is some problem in property file...
Thanks...
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 13:04 GMT For creating properties file 1> use Microsoft word pad and save with name.properties 2> use native2ascii tool native2ascii -encoding UTF-8 name.properties MessagesBundle_hi_IN.properties.
Lew - 23 Aug 2007 13:55 GMT > Thanks for your reply... > > Yes applet is showing Hindi Font > and when I try out.println(\u0921) it showing on JSP. That is not a valid Java expression, unless "\u0921" happens to be a variable identifier.
 Signature Lew
Andrew Thompson - 23 Aug 2007 13:59 GMT ...
>Yes applet is showing Hindi Font >and when I try out.println(\u0921) it showing on JSP. JSP is really HTML (in the browser).
>That means there is some problem in property file... I do not believe the symptoms point to that.
Can you produce the Hindi characters in a plain old HTML file/web page? If you can, write that *exact* text from the JSP, and it should show in the browser as Hindi.
I suspect the trick is is to use HTML meta tags to specify the language of the document (web page), but am a bit hazy on the details.
(Note that the current subject is not best suited to getting the attention of the people who can help, but then, HTML questions are best sorted on comp.infosystems.authoring.html*, in any case.)
* Which is not accessible from the WITUN I mentioned earlier.
 Signature Andrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 14:15 GMT Thanks for Reply,
I want to implement Localization and Internationalization on web page. For this purpose I use .properties file and ResourceBundle. My JSP page showing German, France and other language properly using properties file but not Hindi text.
.properties file are as follow :->
MessagesBundle_de_DE.properties greetings = Hallo. farewell = Tsch??. inquiry = Wie geht's?
MessagesBundle_fr_FR.properties greetings = Bonjour. farewell = Au revoir. inquiry = Comment allez-vous?
MessagesBundle_hi_IN.properties greetings = farewell = inquiry = !
and JSP :->
<div style="display:block; position:absolute; width:500px; height:500px; background:#FFCCCC; left: 234px; top: 49px;"> <% try{ String language; String country; language = new String("hi"); country = new String("IN");
Locale currentLocale; ResourceBundle messages; currentLocale = new Locale(language, country); messages = ResourceBundle.getBundle("MessagesBundle",currentLocale); out.println(messages.getString("greetings")); out.println(messages.getString("inquiry")); out.println(messages.getString("farewell")); }catch(Exception ex){ System.out.println("***exception***:-> "+ex); } %> </div>
Thanks...
Lew - 23 Aug 2007 14:18 GMT > Thanks for Reply, > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > %> > </div> If you're already in a JSP, you don't need scriptlet to emit text. At worst, since you're using scriptlet instead of tag libraries like JSF (Java Server Faces), you would output text as
<%= messages.getString( "greetings" ) %>
Really modern style guides and mavens like Marty Hall excoriate any use of scriptlet in JSP. (Or layout or other markup in .java servlets.)
 Signature Lew
Manish Pandit - 23 Aug 2007 21:21 GMT > <% > try{ [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Thanks... One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, you are better off using a database like MySQL. To give you an example, I went to hi.wikipedia.org. I pasted the word " " (which is hindi for 'devnagri') from there on to wordpad, saved it as text, and the text file did not contain unicode, nor it contained any devnagri.
It worked on MySQL, where I used a JSP to submit it to a Java Servlet, which added this word to a column, and I read it back on the next page.
On a side note, try to avoid using scriptlets in JSPs. Use Custom Tag Libraries, or Struts TL/JSTL/EL instead. They are amazingly easy to use and are pretty powerful in functionality. In fact, Struts has built in support for resource bundles (message bundles) which can handle arguments as well. For example - <% out.println(messages.getString("greetings")); %> can be replaced with
<bean:message key="greetings" bundle="resourcebundle"/>
Where resourcebundle is the resource name you configure in struts.
-cheers, Manish
Lew - 23 Aug 2007 21:57 GMT > One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European > text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, > you are better off using a database like MySQL. To give you an Ooh - better off using MySQL. I'm not so sure about that. You might want to use a real database, like PostgreSQL or Oracle Express or Derby.
> On a side note, try to avoid using scriptlets in JSPs. Use Custom Tag > Libraries, or Struts TL/JSTL/EL instead. They are amazingly easy to Absolutely!
> use and are pretty powerful in functionality. In fact, Struts has > built in support for resource bundles (message bundles) which can > handle arguments as well. For example - <% > out.println(messages.getString("greetings")); %> can be replaced with > > <bean:message key="greetings" bundle="resourcebundle"/> I wouldn't recommend using Struts "bean" taglib. Use JSF or JSTL for such things.
JSTL has the "<fmt:message>" tag. <http://java.sun.com/javaee/5/docs/tutorial/doc/JSTL6.html#wp70047>
JSF has nice resource bundle support also.
Also, the bean taglib is from Struts 1.x. Struts 2.0.9 is the current version. The current version doesn't have "<bean:message>", probably because JSTL and JSF have stolen its thunder.
 Signature Lew
Twisted - 23 Aug 2007 23:11 GMT > > One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European > > text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, > > you are better off using a database like MySQL. To give you an > > Ooh - better off using MySQL. I'm not so sure about that. You might want to > use a real database, like PostgreSQL or Oracle Express or Derby. This is exceedingly strange. You pooh-pooh a free solution and proceed to suggest three proprietary and very expensive ones that J. Random Java Hobbyist can surely not afford.
The obvious thing for someone with no vested interest to do is to suggest the free solution and pooh-pooh the expensive ones. Which cup of coffee will I want? The decent $1 cuppa at Tim's or the ludicrously expensive fancy-pants flavor of the week from Starbucks? You do the math.
OTOH, the obvious thing for someone who does have a vested interest to do is to pooh-pooh the free solution and all of the competing proprietary ones and recommend only the specific proprietary one that they make money off.
It looks like we're witnessing a phenomenon whereby Big Business is being supported in the abstract, for its own sake, irrespective of corporate rivalries. I've seen a few other things in the last year or so that point to a general low level push by a subset of the population to persuade people that free/cheap/commodity is bad and brand-name/expensive/whatever is good without peddling specific brands. In other words, not one brand advertising that brand but a whole industry apparently self-promoting in a cooperative way. Oligopolistic behavior?
Other examples include the subtle but discernible and quite systematic way that over the last couple of decades social mores have been modified to make it impossible to date without spending money on a wide variety of different product categories. It's just not possible to date on a budget -- to have a dating life requires budgeting at least a couple hundred a month on having it, comparable to car insurance or winter heating costs and four times a typical monthly phone bill with mild to moderate long distance or cellular usage; closer to eight times a monthly home-broadband-internet bill. This is obviously gratuitous -- it ought to be possible to meet people and get together simply by walking into town and going to public parks or main street or such areas and then get to know them. But it isn't, or doesn't work, versus using venues you have to pay to use (e.g. bars, clubs as in nightclubs, or clubs as in interest groups or whatever with membership fees, or similarly) and spending money on a variety of consumables (mainly assorted cosmetics, for women, and various things for men, and sizable quantities of ethanol-laced beverages). Somehow it's gotten arranged -- the fix is in. But however it was done seems very subtle, perhaps very indirect manipulation or even self- organizing somehow. A pareto-nonoptimal Nash equilibrium? Even then that can be a symptom of a rigged game. Who benefits? A whole slew of large industries, notably the alcoholic-beverage and the fragrance/ cosmetics industries. Even rivals' ads have in common the message that to have a social life you need their product, and it seems that that sort of thing becomes self-fulfilling, as everyone expects their date to have similar products. Those industries get to write their own tickets! Oh, and there's the other thing that tends to be needed -- a car. Not having a car is basically immediate disqualification. Having a car is of course expensive. The car is expensive. Insurance is expensive. Fuel is expensive, and getting more so.
In the software industry case it seems like an organized FUD campaign against FOSS, probably spearheaded by Microsoft, but probably a lot of the BS, including that in the post I'm replying to, is simply the result of saturation advertising by proprietary software companies whose ads consistently position one commercial product above the others, but all commercial products above FOSS products. The old tactic of the Big Lie once again, until people start believing it. Believing they get what they pay for, even though they sooner or later start wondering why commercial products tend to be slower, more bloated, buggier, and more ridden with security holes, with poorer support and less response in particular to security problems -- sitting on exploit reports and doing nothing, or stonewalling when an exploit is in the wild, rather than *doing* something to fix things. This is what the Microsofts and other proprietary software companies of the world position as being superior to FOSS. And people buy it hook, line, and sinker. Why? Apparently because the price tag makes them incorrectly jump to the conclusion that since it sells for more, it must be worth that much more. When it's really just priced that high because of artificial scarcity and the ability to arbitrarily set prices without much force-feedback from the market.
A third example is the tendency of the physical infrastructure of our towns and cities to be designed to be hostile to pedestrians and, especially, to cyclists. No doubt Big Auto, Big Steel, and especially Big Oil are to thank here, although it's probably more a matter of campaign funding and bribing zoning regulators and the like than public advertising with consistent elements this time. Putting in sidewalks and especially usable benches presumably gets you an immediate 50% reduction in your future campaign donations from big businesses. Local merchants whose shops benefit from foot traffic can pay only a fraction as much to support putting these in as the big oil, steel, and car companies can to support not doing so, or even destroying pre-existing ones as an "unfortunate side effect" of some urban renewal project or another.
In all of these cases, Joe Consumer, and especially people in lower income brackets, and generally the majority of the population, are made worse off to enrich just a few, and yet somehow are prevented from just saying "No!" and using their collective market and voting power to make that "No!" carry some weight. Because of a fourth trend -- isolating people from one another and preventing them from forming true communities of ordinary-joes, while bombarding them with commercially-motivated messages (advertising, and subtler stuff in the mainstream media). No wonder people spend a lot, overeat, and do all kinds of other stuff trying to fill some sort of void or another but never feeling happy. There's also the whole "rat-race" thing -- having to kiss a.s and suck up and schmooze your way up some corporate ladder, pulling double-overtime three nights a week and working every other weekend, just to not get sacked in the next round of layoffs, nevermind to get an actual promotion. Something's distorted the labor market so that it has 11%+ unemployment but those that are employed are *over*employed, and often in work they're overqualified for. Full employment with four-day/64-hour workweeks would be much more even distribution, so why doesn't the market trend in that direction? Again it must involve unequal bargaining power, with employers (= corporations) too powerful and able to distort the labor market to their own advantage (cheap labor kept obsequious by fear of job loss).
Of course, I've no idea how to fix any of this. Communism is something that keeps being tried and keeps failing for various reasons. It's clearly not the answer. A proper, truly competitive market with more equal bargaining power between markets and the businesses that serve them would seem to be desirable, but it's hard to see how to cause it to exist. Striking down laws that promote artificial scarcity (copyright and patent) would be a start. Most likely, the Internet will play a key role in enabling the formation of communities to occur again. Fuel shortages/price increases and climate change might help too, bad though such things initially seem, as people seek to scrimp and worry about global warming and so avoid as much car travel, use buses, and generally meet random people in their neighborhoods and towns once again as a result. Mass consumer backlashes against ever- more-expensive and frivolous "lifestyle consumables" like perfumes and razor blades might be another one, or a steady encroachment of cheap commodities from below -- commodity computing hardware happened in my lifetime, and commodity software is on the rise in FOSS; commodity generic fragrances and cheap razor blades compatible with common razors can't be far behind. There's lots of room for various companies to grab the low end of the market from the traditional robber barons in various industries, and if some of them don't join the dark side and become part of the same oligopoly they started off by challenging, we'll see some changes.
But I digress...
Lew - 23 Aug 2007 23:44 GMT >>> One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European >>> text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to suggest three proprietary and very expensive ones that J. Random > Java Hobbyist can surely not afford. PostgreSQL is free and open source. <http://www.postgresql.org/> Oracle Express is free to develop, deploy and distribute. <http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/index.html> Derby is free and open source. ,http://db.apache.org/derby/>
I really have no idea why you think that constitutes "pooh-pooh[ing] a free solution" or why you think that free, open source products are "proprietary and very expensive".
If Joe Hobbyist cannot afford free, he's truly desperate.
 Signature Lew
Patricia Shanahan - 23 Aug 2007 23:56 GMT >>>> One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European >>>> text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > PostgreSQL is free and open source. > <http://www.postgresql.org/> Also, I started off using MySQL, but things went more smoothly after I switched to PostgreSQL, based on advice in this newsgroup.
Patricia
nebulous99@gmail.com - 24 Aug 2007 01:06 GMT > >>> One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European > >>> text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > PostgreSQL is free and open source. Really? The name's usually come up in a commercial context.
> Oracle Express is free to develop, deploy and distribute. That one is definitely proprietary, although Oracle has been known to dabble in FOSS offerings from time to time (including a Red Hat clone IIRC). I doubt it's actually open source, and the "Express" in the name makes me thing "*Crutches not included" in small print on the box somewhere. :P
> Derby is free and open source. I'd never heard of that one. But the usual pattern is that when someone pooh-poohs a freebie and drops a well-known corporation's name (e.g. Oracle) they are pushing people at pay solutions for one reason or another.
Of course, if it's free and open source and I've never heard of it, it's obscure, and that makes me wonder why it's obscure whereas e.g. MySQL is not obscure. A lot of the times, obscure means sucks, although it can simply mean new. Of course, with software, new usually means sucks. :)
(The reverse correspondence doesn't hold. Sucks doesn't mean obscure; just ask any Windoze user. Commercial software that sucks is often not obscure because the company selling it makes up for its shortcomings on selling itself by quality and word of mouth by hyping it with massive ad campaigns and the odd press release (= thinly-veiled ad). Obscurity and quality tend to correlate better both ways with open source, especially for established projects, because open source tends to get promoted primarily via meritocratic methods such as word-of- mouth.)
Lew - 24 Aug 2007 01:25 GMT Lew wrote:
>> Derby is free and open source.
> I'd never heard of that one. But the usual pattern is that when > someone pooh-poohs a freebie and drops a well-known corporation's name Far from "pooh-poohing" freebies, I suggested three.
> (e.g. Oracle) they are pushing people at pay solutions for one reason > or another. The danger with generalizations is that they might not apply.
There is an advantage to a comp.lang.java.programmer to be familiar with Oracle, since it's a major source of employment, thus it serves this community for me to mention it. Since Express Edition is free, I'm not promoting anything costly.
> Of course, if [Derby]'s free and open source and I've never heard of it, > it's obscure, and that makes me wonder why it's obscure whereas e.g. > MySQL is not obscure. A lot of the times, obscure means sucks, > although it can simply mean new. Of course, with software, new usually > means sucks. :) Apache Derby is far from obscure. It's included in a number of products, such as NetBeans, and pretty darn widespread. Check out their website, referenced upthread.
Part of why I mentioned it in the first place, along with PostgreSQL and Oracle's free offering, was to inform folks of alternatives they might not have considered.
So if you haven't heard of it before, and now thanks to me you have, you're welcome.
 Signature Lew
nebulous99@gmail.com - 24 Aug 2007 01:43 GMT > Far from "pooh-poohing" freebies, I suggested three. And pooh-poohed one.
> The danger with generalizations is that they might not apply. You know what? Just stop it. Stop lecturing me. Stop trying to prove to me, the world, or yourself how inadequate I supposedly am. Stop net.stalking me by purposely checking newsgroups every 2 minutes to post more of this sh.t that forces me to respond in my own defense. I'm tired, and I want to go to bed, and I want to do it without leaving some nasty flame or implied insult festering away with hours in which to influence other peoples' minds before I get around to defusing it. What the hell do you want from me, anyway? Why are you doing this? Why not just shut the hell up and stick to discussing Java?
> There is an advantage to a comp.lang.java.programmer to be familiar with > Oracle, since it's a major source of employment, thus it serves this community > for me to mention it. Since Express Edition is free, I'm not promoting > anything costly. That's very clever dissembling this time. I think you're getting better at it. Of course, the fact is what you're promoting is no doubt more an interactive advertisement than fully usable software -- things named "express edition" with expensive "regular" and/or "pro" editions almost always are. Which means you're indirectly promoting the expensive version that people will be forced to migrate to when they get dependent in some way on the crippled version and then something makes it hard to stay with that or to back out and use e.g. MySQL instead -- such as it gratuitously not exporting easily to commodity formats and time-bombing, failing to scale up past a certain point, or otherwise exhibiting a gratuitous limitation that not only would it not have cost them anything to have avoided or made much more generous, but it probably actually cost them extra time and effort to put the limitation there in the first place.
I know -- I've seen this sort of thing before with all kinds of "express" or "light" or "free" or "home" or "starter" editions of things, either free or cheap. Windows XP home and Vista's "starter edition" are Microsoft examples (one has gratuitous crippling that affects any attempt to use the machine to its full hardware capacity as a server in almost any role; made worse with service pack 2; the other has gratuitous limits on multitasking of all things; neither are free or really even cheap but they are certainly inexpensive *relative* to the corresponding "pro" versions). And I could list more examples all night.
> Apache Derby is far from obscure. It's included in a number of products, such > as NetBeans, and pretty darn widespread. Check out their website, referenced > upthread. Apache isn't obscure, but I've never heard this Derby mentioned at all before, even though I've heard both MySQL and PostgreSQL mentioned plenty of times, and Oracle database products of course. It sounds as if Derby is shipped as an under-the-hood component in prepackaged solutions much more commonly than it's shipped as a stand-alone product in its own right.
You probably know the make of your car. Do you know which steel company provided the bulk of its structural steel? I doubt it. Do very many people directly buy steel from that company, compared to buying cars from manufacturers that use that brand of steel in their construction? Probably not. More extreme example, but still.
Lew - 24 Aug 2007 14:48 GMT Something else to bear in mind is that the "free" status of MySQL is questioned. They are a little weird in their licensing, and some have asserted that to legally use their product commercially one must buy their commercial license.
IANAL, so I do not know why those folks say that. As I understand GPL, if you get MySQL under the GPL that's it - you have it for free. The key seems to be whether your application can be considered a "derivative work" under the GPL. Here's what MySQL AB says about the GPL version:
> The formal terms of the GPL license can be found in the GNU General Public License section of the MySQL Reference Manual. Please note that the General Public License can be restrictive, so if it doesn't meet your needs, you are better served by our Commercial License. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > FLOSS License Exception. We have created a license exception which enables Free/Libre and Open Source software ("FLOSS") to be able to include the GPL-licensed MySQL client libraries despite the fact that not all open source licenses are compatible with the GPL (this includes the PHP license version 3.0). Read more about the FLOSS License Exception. I'm more in favor of the Apache / BSD style licenses than GPL personally.
 Signature Lew
Twisted - 24 Aug 2007 14:57 GMT > IANAL, so I do not know why those folks say that. As I understand GPL, if you > get MySQL under the GPL that's it - you have it for free. The key seems to be > whether your application can be considered a "derivative work" under the GPL. As I understand the GPL, if you use or link against GPL code you need to open source your own project or negotiate an exemption with the copyright holder. Ordinarily the copyright is transferred to the FSF; it sounds like MySQL is an exception and has retained it so they can negotiate closed-source uses, which is somewhat against the spirit in which the GPL is intended.
If you run a MySQL server and a generic SQL-query-using client, however, the client can surely be closed-source (as long as you don't use a GPL'd client library in the client; SQL is pretty standardized so this is feasible). Modify the database server and distribute the modification and you're required to distribute the source code though, since the server is GPL.
Arne Vajhøj - 25 Aug 2007 00:18 GMT >> IANAL, so I do not know why those folks say that. As I understand GPL, if you >> get MySQL under the GPL that's it - you have it for free. The key seems to be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > negotiate closed-source uses, which is somewhat against the spirit in > which the GPL is intended. No. For GNU projects the copyright is transferred to the FSF. For the >95% other projects using GPL that is not the case.
> If you run a MySQL server and a generic SQL-query-using client, > however, the client can surely be closed-source (as long as you don't > use a GPL'd client library in the client; SQL is pretty standardized > so this is feasible). The point is that the MySQL provided client libraries are GPL'ed.
Arne
Twisted - 31 Aug 2007 18:33 GMT On Aug 24, 7:18 pm, Arne Vajh?j <a...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> No. Do not bluntly contradict me.
> For GNU projects the copyright is transferred to the FSF. For > the >95% other projects using GPL that is not the case. ISTR the FSF recommending that all users of the GPL transfer the copyright to the FSF, which will be better able to fight back legally if the GPL'd code is later misused (e.g. used in a closed-source derivative work). And if that isn't actual common practise, then there may be a problem brewing that's far bigger than whatever it is you're trying to bicker with me about that is motivating you to attempt to publicly denigrate me.
> > If you run a MySQL server and a generic SQL-query-using client, > > however, the client can surely be closed-source (as long as you don't > > use a GPL'd client library in the client; SQL is pretty standardized > > so this is feasible). > > The point is that the MySQL provided client libraries are GPL'ed. For shame; should be LGPL, obviously. This means if you want to make a closed source database client you need to use some other client library or roll your own; however it doesn't prevent your using MySQL on the server side, since SQL itself is pretty thoroughly standardized and the MySQL server's source code and MySQL client library source code can be studied so whatever protocols it uses to receive SQL commands is presumably not either proprietary or obfuscated in a way that would impair reimplementing the client side of the protocol. Such an implementation, so long as it doesn't copy verbatim any code from either half of MySQL, doesn't get "infected" with the GPL.
Arne Vajhøj - 01 Sep 2007 22:45 GMT >> For GNU projects the copyright is transferred to the FSF. For >> the >95% other projects using GPL that is not the case. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > trying to bicker with me about that is motivating you to attempt to > publicly denigrate me. People are not signing over their copyright to FSF.
I even doubt that FSF would like to administer the copyright of 100000-150000 GPL'ed projects.
A quick googling substantiate that:
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/assigning.html
<quote> The FSF currently accepts assignments for those projects that are officially dubbed GNU. </quote>
I think you are confusing "assign copyright for all source to one legal entity" and "assign copyright for all source to FSF".
There are some practical advantages when suing for copyright infringement to have all copyright owned by one legal entity.
For GNU software that is FSF.
But for non-GNU software that can and should be someone else.
Arne
PS: And if you post incorrect information to a public information, then you should expect to be corrected.
Arne
Twisted - 03 Sep 2007 04:10 GMT On Sep 1, 5:45 pm, Arne Vajh?j <a...@vajhoej.dk> wrote: [snip attack post; the nasty things implied about me were false]
Stop attacking me and find something constructive to do. You have been showing up on my jerkwad-o-meter far too often recently. If it happens again I may have to write out a citation or two.
Arne Vajhøj - 25 Aug 2007 00:16 GMT > Something else to bear in mind is that the "free" status of MySQL is > questioned. They are a little weird in their licensing, and some have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > key seems to be whether your application can be considered a "derivative > work" under the GPL. The tricky part is that the connectors are also GPL'ed.
If they were LGPL or GPL with classpath exception there would absolutely no issue.
Now with GPL the definition of linking becomes relevant.
If one own code directly refer to a MySQL class, then it is probably linking.
If ones own code has a hardcoded Class.forName that refer to a MySQL class, then I would not consider it linking, but MySQL AB migth.
If one own code reads a name of a MySQL class from a config file and use that, then it is probably not linking.
Arne
Sherm Pendley - 24 Aug 2007 02:34 GMT >> > One option you can try is to use database as your bundle. European >> > text is easy to store on a file system as ISO 8859-1, but for unicode, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to suggest three proprietary and very expensive ones that J. Random > Java Hobbyist can surely not afford. None of those cost a dime, and only one of them is proprietary.
PostgreSQL is BSD licensed.
<http://www.postgresql.org/>
Derby is also open source, under the Apache license:
<http://db.apache.org/derby/>
Oracle Express is proprietary, but it's a free download.
<http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/index.html>
What I thought was quite strange was that Lew *didn't* pooh-pooh the idea that a database is somehow better suited for storing Unicode text than a filesystem. While it's true that old-school POSIX functions like fread() just give you a bag of bytes, most programmers these days are using higher level tools that do understand text encoding.
sherm--
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Twisted - 24 Aug 2007 14:53 GMT [snip repetition of things Lew wrote and which were dealt with already in another branch of this thread]
> What I thought was quite strange was that Lew *didn't* pooh-pooh the idea > that a database is somehow better suited for storing Unicode text than a > filesystem. While it's true that old-school POSIX functions like fread() > just give you a bag of bytes, most programmers these days are using higher > level tools that do understand text encoding. Tools such as Java?
(Amazingly, I actually agree with Sherm here.)
Amit Jain - 24 Aug 2007 06:18 GMT Thanks for reply,
I am also using MySql database for storing hindi text but I also want to store some of Hindi text in properties file.
For Example Login page, Login page contain User Name and Password so I want to display user name and password in Hindi when user select Hindi Language using .properties file and Resource Bundle.
For doing above task (login page Internationalization), Is my steps are wright or wrong ?
Thanks Amit Jain
Amit Jain - 24 Aug 2007 10:01 GMT Hi, Thanks for reply,
I stored hindi text in mysql and displaying it on JSP. I also want to display hindi text using Resource Bundle and properties file.
For example I have Login page User Name: Text Box Password : Text Box Submit Button
when user select hindi language then page should display user name and password in Hindi language using .properties and Resource Bundle file.
Thanks Amit Jain
Lothar Kimmeringer - 24 Aug 2007 00:33 GMT > MessagesBundle_de_DE.properties > greetings = Hallo. > farewell = Tsch??. > inquiry = Wie geht's? That's one effect with posting via Google. The content-type is claimed to be ASCII, but it isn't.
> MessagesBundle_hi_IN.properties > greetings = > farewell = > inquiry = ! I only see spaces here. If you do a type MessagesBundle_hi_IN.properties on Windows or a cat MessagesBundle_hi_IN.properties on a unixoid system. What is printed on the console? If native2ascii worked correctly there should be a lot of lines looking like this: greetings = \uxxxx\uyyyy\uzzzz...
> language = new String("hi"); > country = new String("IN"); a language = "hi"; country = "IN"; is OK as well. No need to create instances and instances of Strings.
> out.println(messages.getString("greetings")); To see what's transfered, can you do a out.println(URLEncoder.encode(messages.getString("greetings"), "UTF8")); to be able to see what's received from the bundle?
Regards, Lothar
 Signature Lothar Kimmeringer E-Mail: spamfang@kimmeringer.de PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)
Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong questions!
Roedy Green - 23 Aug 2007 22:07 GMT >JSP is really HTML (in the browser). What happens when you do a "view source" in the page sent to the browser?
You should see ड and the like for the Hindi characters.
Alternatively you should see <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> and the Hindi chars should be multi-byte encoded. You can check if they are correct by viewing the file with something that understands UTF-8 encoding, e.g. notepad.
You need to specify a default font in your CSS body style that supports Hindi.
 Signature Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com
Roedy Green - 23 Aug 2007 22:01 GMT >That means there is some problem in property file... Post your property file or part of it. see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/resourcebundle.html for hints on how to encode the file.
 Signature Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com
Ishwor Gurung - 23 Aug 2007 09:09 GMT > Google Groups Make sure you're subscribed to the group before posting.
HTH
 Signature Cheers, Ishwor Gurung /* humpty dumpty */
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 09:13 GMT > Make sure you're subscribed to the group before posting. yes I am subscribed user for Google Groups otherwise I am not able to post any other message also.
Twisted - 23 Aug 2007 22:38 GMT > > Make sure you're subscribed to the group before posting. > > yes I am subscribed user for Google Groups otherwise I am not able to > post any other message also. Does anyone else find it odd that he posted the original post from his GG account, and then replies to replies to that post from his GG account, all the while complaining that his posts from GG to cljp aren't appearing? It would be rather odd if he didn't see his own posts but did see the replies, or if he didn't see the replies but did nonetheless post replies to those replies ... :)
Lothar Kimmeringer - 24 Aug 2007 00:41 GMT > Does anyone else find it odd that he posted the original post from his > GG account, and then replies to replies to that post from his GG > account, all the while complaining that his posts from GG to cljp > aren't appearing? But there seems to be some kind of problem:
http://groups.google.de/groups?as_uauthors=%3Camitatgroups%40gmail.com%3E
But with http://groups.google.de/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/browse_thread/thread/a9f 7310669dcad66/91cb4601f8ca662a#91cb4601f8ca662a you can see this thread completely. If you go to the "Profile" of him (next to his name) you can see, that he was posting 24 articles in august, but as soon as you click on the link, you see no results at all.
Regards, Lothar
 Signature Lothar Kimmeringer E-Mail: spamfang@kimmeringer.de PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)
Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong questions!
Gordon Beaton - 23 Aug 2007 09:17 GMT >>From last to two days i trying to post one message but after > submitting post it show me "Your message will appear in > comp.lang.java.programmer momentarily." > > But couldn't found it on Group "comp.lang.java.programmer" . There are several posts from you in this newsgroup.
Realize that nobody reading this group has any control over which posts appear. If you have issues with Google Groups, complain to them instead:
http://groups.google.com/group/Is-Something-Broken/topics
/gordon
--
Roedy Green - 23 Aug 2007 10:54 GMT >submitting post it show me > "Your message will appear in comp.lang.java.programmer >momentarily." > >But couldn't found it on Group "comp.lang.java.programmer" . I presume you are using Google which is an indirect (and Mickey Mouse) way to access the newsgroups. Try getting a dedicated newsreader. It will be more reliable. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/newsreader.html
 Signature Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products The Java Glossary http://mindprod.com
Amit Jain - 23 Aug 2007 11:36 GMT Please Guide me to sort out my Hindi Text display problem. what's I did wrong in program...
Thanks in advance...
Twisted - 23 Aug 2007 23:14 GMT On Aug 23, 5:54 am, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
> >submitting post it show me > > "Your message will appear in comp.lang.java.programmer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I presume you are using Google which is an indirect (and Mickey Mouse) > way to access the newsgroups. Try getting a dedicated newsreader. If the OP is using google groups, it's probably because their ISP doesn't provide a free "real" newsserver for them to use with a "real" newsreader. Because given the choice between the two, I know which I'd prefer...
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