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Java Forum / General / August 2007Self-configuring classes
This is a general design question. I'd like a developer to be able to be able to write his own class that implements one of our interfaces. The developer would then register the class with our app which would use it. Our app would discover what configuration parameters the class needed, and then throw up a page in our UI so an end user could fill them in. The question is, what is the best way for the class to tell the app what parameters it requires? Are there any good design patterns for this? I could use reflection to discover all the setXXX() methods on the class, but I'm not sure this is flexible enough, plus I don't like reflection. JMX sort-of purports to do this kind of thing, but it's kind of ugly as well. At least it was when I looked at it a couple years ago. > This is a general design question. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > class, but I'm not sure this is flexible enough, plus I don't like > reflection. I think looking up setters are the normal way of doing it. Performance of reflection should not be an issue here. Arne >This is a general design question. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >JMX sort-of purports to do this kind of thing, but it's kind of ugly as >well. At least it was when I looked at it a couple years ago. Have you interface include a method to return the required parameters in some standard format string. Your app would call this method on the developers class, parse the returned string and throw up a user form with all the required/optional parameters as specified. rossum >> This is a general design question. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > rossum Or, same idea but a bit more control, define an interface: interface ParameterAccepter{ String acceptParameter(String value); String parameterText(); } acceptParameter returns null if the value if good, or a String saying what is wrong with it. parameterText supplies a String you can use as a label in the GUI and as part of the dialog reporting an error. The method in the main interface returns a ParameterAccepter[], null or length zero if there are no parameters. You can, if you like, supply some utility methods for conversion and range checks. Patricia > The question is, what is the best way for the class to tell the app what > parameters it requires? Are there any good design patterns for this? I don't know what is the best way for it, and if any good design pattern supports it. But what about a special method in your interfaces which your application will call to know a required configuration parameters? The method would be: ParameterDescription[] getRequiredParameters(); where ParameterDescription may describe a type, accessors, and/or whatever your application need to know about each parameter. piotr Chris wrote: > I'd like a developer to be able to be able to write his own class that implements one of our interfaces. The developer would then register the class with our app which would use it. Our app would discover what configuration parameters the class needed, and then throw up a page in our UI so an end user could fill them in. Jini, JNDI and Web services UDDI are stabs at this same target. Arguably, so is EJB. The Spring framework and the pattern called "Inversion of Control". > The question is, what is the best way for the class to tell the app > what parameters it requires? Are there any good design patterns for this? One way is to let the component handle its own initialization. All the extant approaches of which I'm aware work off the concept of a registry or a set of descriptors that map implementations to their abstractions. Many involve a run-time discovery process similar to or based on reflection. JavaBeans property sheets come to mind. Just for starters.  SignatureLew > > The question is, what is the best way for the class to tell the app > > what parameters it requires? Are there any good design patterns for this? > > One way is to let the component handle its own initialization. One way to do that is to have the interface specify a method like: public JDialog getConfigurationDialog (); and the calling framework uses something like synchronized (theNewlyLoadedComponent) { theNewlyLoadedComponent.getConfigurationDialog().show(); theNewlyLoadedComponent.wait(); } called from outside the event dispatch thread, or just theNewlyLoadedComponent.getConfigurationDialog().show(); return; from inside event-driven code. The component, of course, returns a JDialog object from this method that has been constructed with a reference to "this" (the component; it might use an inner class) and everything set up, components added, listeners attached, and pack() called; the listeners that dismiss the dialog invoke notify() on the component as their very last action, after setVisible(false); and before dispose(); return;. > public JDialog getConfigurationDialog (); > synchronized (theNewlyLoadedComponent) { > theNewlyLoadedComponent.getConfigurationDialog().show(); > theNewlyLoadedComponent.wait(); > } > > called from outside the event dispatch thread, or just Like JFrame you shouldn't show (or better setVisible) a JDialog off the EDT. It may not cause a problem that is apparent on your machine today. Also wait should be in a while loop. Even if it weren't for spurious wakeups, there is more often than not a race condition. Back to the original problem. javax.print.ServiceUIFactory does something similar, although I haven't studied it well enough to see whether it does it well. Tom Hawtin > Like JFrame you shouldn't show (or better setVisible) a JDialog off the > EDT. Actually, it's quite normal to do so; a JFrame show() is very often the last line in main(). [further uninvited criticism deleted] >> Like JFrame you shouldn't show (or better setVisible) a JDialog off the >> EDT. > > Actually, it's quite normal to do so; a JFrame show() is very often > the last line in main(). Not particular relevant for the discussion but show is deprecated and setVisible should be used. Arne On Aug 3, 11:28 pm, Arne Vajh?j <a...@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > >> Like JFrame you shouldn't show (or better setVisible) a JDialog off the > >> EDT. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Not particular relevant for the discussion but show is deprecated > and setVisible should be used. The code was off-the-cuff; so sue me. The gist of the intent should be pretty clear. >> Like JFrame you shouldn't show (or better setVisible) a JDialog off the >> EDT. > > Actually, it's quite normal to do so; a JFrame show() is very often > the last line in main(). It's normal. It's also wrong. Don't do it. Most certainly, do not encourage other people to do it. > [further uninvited criticism deleted] Uninvited? This is a usenet group. You made a technical error that, although unlikely to be a problem in this case, is often very serious. I corrected it. Tom Hawtin > >> Like JFrame you shouldn't show (or better setVisible) a JDialog off the > >> EDT. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's normal. It's also wrong. [attempts to give me orders like he's boss of something] Oh really? Explain then a) Why it's normal, if what you say is true; b) Why it doesn't cause problems (and why you believe it's wrong despite its not causing problems); and c) What you'd do instead (since, obviously, one has no access to the EDT until one has shown some UI and a UI event has subsequently been generated) > > [further uninvited criticism deleted] > > Uninvited? This is a usenet group. You [accuses me of crap] If you are unwilling or unable to leave me in peace due to an uncontrollable urge to post a hostile followup whenever you see my name, then killfile me. DO NOT, under any circumstances, post any more unpleasant crap of this sort accusing me of sh.t. I don't care if you're being held at gunpoint and told to do it; don't. :P On Aug 3, 10:01 pm, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > > > ...it's quite normal to do so; a JFrame show() is very often > > > the last line in main(). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Oh really? Explain then > a) Why it's normal, if what you say is true; Because for a long time Sun's own tutorials made that mistake. At this point other tutorials based off those original, incorrect tutorials still exist, some of them completely unmaintained. They have the advantage of simply having been around longer, making them better-linked as a class, in turn improving the likelyhood one such "bad" example will appear high in google searches for "swing tutorial" and similar phrases. > b) Why it doesn't cause problems (and why you believe it's wrong > despite its not causing problems); and Because it does cause problems, but not consistently. As <http:// weblogs.java.net/blog/alexfromsun/archive/2005/11/ debugging_swing_1.html> observes, sometimes even simply creating a window from main(String...) directly can have unexpected side effects. > c) What you'd do instead (since, obviously, one has no access to the > EDT until one has shown some UI and a UI event has subsequently been > generated) Use the example from the current Sun Swing tutorials, after verifying for myself that it really does run the passed code on the right thread and will actually create it if necessary. The source is, after all, right there. .... public static void main(String args[]) { SwingUtilities.invokeLater(new Runnable() { public void run() { createGui(); } }); } private static void createGui() { //this code must be run on EventDispatch thread! JFrame frame = new JFrame(); frame.setDefaultCloseOperation(JFrame.EXIT_ON_CLOSE); frame.getContentPane().setLayout(new GridBagLayout()); JEditorPane pane = new JEditorPane(); pane.setText("Edt matters!"); pane.setSelectionEnd(pane.getText().length()); frame.getContentPane().add(pane); frame.setSize(new Dimension(200, 100)); frame.setVisible(true); //clear selection pane.setSelectionStart(0); pane.setSelectionEnd(0); } .... > DO NOT You do not have any right to dictate others behaviour, any more than others have the right to dictate yours. If Thomas' behaviour bothers you, you'll look far less foolish if you make use of your newsreader's killfile feature and cut him from your worldview than you will trying to order him about. -Owen > Because it does cause problems, but not consistently. As <http:// > weblogs.java.net/blog/alexfromsun/archive/2005/11/ > debugging_swing_1.html> observes, sometimes even simply creating a > window from main(String...) directly can have unexpected side effects. Some obscure blog posting from a blog no-one reads. That's your evidence against me? I notice nobody else gets attacked for suggesting standard practise in this group -- only me. Why do people pick on me? > Use the example from the current Sun Swing tutorials, after verifying > for myself that it really does run the passed code on the right thread > and will actually create it if necessary. The source is, after all, > right there. I haven't reviewed any of the tutorials in some time, mainly because I long since learned the basics backward and forward, but ISTR the typical thing for them to do was ... invoke setVisible(true) or show() on your main application frame from main(). > public static void main(String args[]) { > SwingUtilities.invokeLater(new Runnable() { Eh, until you've presented some UI my understanding has been that the EDT doesn't even exist yet; it's created lazily. So invokeLater might be waiting a very long time, given that the UI waits for invokeLater to invoke its argument before existing, invokeLater waits for the EDT to exist to invoke its argument, and the EDT waits for the UI to exist before starting...or has something in that department been changed? I do hope it's not now true that all console apps however trivial generate a useless EDT wasting memory and slowing down startup? Also, ISTR SwingUtilities being a third-party (but commonplace) class, not a standard Java class at all. Are you sure that one of the primary Sun tutorials is assuming people have installed it, and not a third- party tutorial or another of those blog postings? > You do not have any right to dictate others behaviour, any more than > others have the right to dictate yours. Really? Explain why other people have no problem ordering me about then, but turn right around and object on those very grounds when I tell them to cut it the hell out? Or is it that some people are for giving out orders and some people are for taking orders and not questioning them? Hehe -- very funny. Not. > If Thomas' behaviour bothers you, you'll look far less foolish if you make use of your newsreader's > killfile feature and cut him from your worldview than you will trying > to order him about. If he were merely being obnoxious, and GG provided killfiles, that would be fine with me. Unfortunately, he's not merely being obnoxious; he publicly accused me of sh.t and called my integrity and competence into question. Simply ignoring him (e.g. by killfiling him) won't stop him posting trash about me wherever he sees fit, but will stop me noticing until it's too late and he's convinced a huge number of people of his hostile beliefs about me. Furthermore, GG doesn't have killfiles anyway. :P On Aug 4, 5:58 am, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > Some obscure blog posting from a blog no-one reads. > That's your evidence against me? Try Sun's official tutorial then: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/concurrency/initial.html They now say that you should put the creation of GUI into a separate Runnable, and invoke it via SwingUtilities.invokeLater. (One of their old online demo code often deadlocks, and they finally found out it was because they didn't postpone everything until the EDT. So now they advocate all GUI calls must only be done via the EDT unless the GUI method's javadoc specifically says it is thread-safe) > I haven't reviewed any of the tutorials in some time, mainly because I > long since learned the basics backward and forward, but ISTR the > typical thing for them to do was ... invoke setVisible(true) or show() > on your main application frame from main(). That was the typical thing to do back then. But it was prone to deadlocks; so now Sun advocates using SwingUtilities.invokaLater instead. > Eh, until you've presented some UI my understanding has been that the > EDT doesn't even exist yet; it's created lazily. So invokeLater might > be waiting a very long time No. Wrong again. The thread will be created if needed, so it won't cause the deadlock that you fear. > Also, ISTR SwingUtilities being a third-party (but commonplace) class > not a standard Java class at all. No. Wrong again. It's part of Java 5: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/SwingUtilities.html Now, go away. Your ignorance (and your obvious dishonesty in your debating tactics is most unwelcome). [snip ... reasonably civil right up until:] > No. Wrong again. Take your rude self and try to force it physically into the USB port on the back of your modem. If we're lucky, you'll both die in the attempt AND destroy said modem. :P > The thread will be created if needed, so it won't cause the deadlock that you fear. That's not the documented behavior that I recollect. If there has been a major update in this area, then why wasn't I notified? I don't appreciate being expected to know something from some obscure blog I don't follow and indeed hadn't even heard of, on pain of being insulted and trash-talked for not having done so, nor being expected to frequently revisit familiar and now-boring tutorials just in case they decide to change the rules out from under everyone. I find it difficult to believe that this is in fact the way we're supposed to get notified, or that we're supposed to be publicly lambasted for any lack of such notification! OTOH, I do recall checking out the change lists associated with new Java versions. I don't remember seeing any of this mixed in with generics or enums (1.5) or regexps and suchlike (1.6). [further insults me, calling me both a moron and a liar] Go to hell, Jack T. On Aug 4, 6:31 am, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > [snip ... reasonably civil right up until:] You're pathetic. Even when people point out your mistake, you still insist on defending your argument to the bitter stupid end. Your Java GUI knowledge is out of date. If still thought SwingUtilities.invokeLater is a third party addon, (and thus not use it), that means your GUI code is horribly unsafe. You are out of date. Now *that* is an insult, you moron. > You are out of date. > Now *that* is an insult, you moron. ^^^ QFT I couldn't put it any better myself. Careful Jack, he'll report you to your ISP for being very very naughty! > Careful Jack, he'll report you to your ISP > for being very very naughty! Twisted's ISP is Bell Canada. Twisted's real name is Paul D. (He was involved in an equally heated debate on another newsgroup, and people there finally confirmed his real name, with evidence!) > > Careful Jack, he'll report you to your ISP > > for being very very naughty! > > Twisted's ISP is [snip] > Twisted's real name is [snip attempted invasion of privacy] Your attempts to violate the law have been reported to Telus and to Google Groups. Expect to lose both accounts fucktard. You crossed the line! And Attardi, don't encourage this type of serious abuse! > Your attempts to violate the law have been reported to Telus and to > Google Groups. Expect to lose both accounts fucktard. You crossed the > line! What law did he violate? Saying what your name and ISP are? > What law did he violate? Saying what your name and ISP are? Saying what he *thinks* my name is, yes. It's attempted invasion of privacy. There's a reason people often go anonymous online, jackass; it's because they don't want to get stalked or harassed offline by some random wackjob from the Internet. I, in particular, don't choose to expose myself unnecessarily to that risk. Jack T, in behaving as he is doing, appears to be attempting, in fact, to start stalking me offline. Fortunately, my ISP is going to mislead him around in circles -- very big circles anyway, since it serves a continent-sized area. As for my name, well, he can keep guessing. He might actually get it right in another thousand tries. Although he'll have been thrown off both local broadband providers and then every dial-up provider in his city for attempted invasion of privacy long before he gets the chance to make a thousand tries. You should note that I already had another wackjob LARTed for the same offense. I reported his a.s twice to Google Groups (which, like Jack T, he was using to post) without results; when he posted a third attack, I emailed his broadband provider and he promptly vanished. Jack T's connection now likewise probably has another few hours to live -- a day or two if he's lucky and they don't process my abuse complaint until Monday morning. With luck, he won't be making the same mistake twice even if he does get reconnected with another provider. Not when a second LARTing means being stuck with dial-up or spending $thousands to move to a different city. >> What law did he violate? Saying what your name and ISP are? > > Saying what he *thinks* my name is, yes. There's nothing illegal about that, you idiot. You give yourself way too much credit. Your abuse complaint will fall on deaf ears, just like it did with my ISP. Now stop being a crybaby! > >> What law did he violate? Saying what your name and ISP are? > > > Saying what he *thinks* my name is, yes. > > There's nothing illegal about that, [insults deleted] Attempted invasion of another user's privacy is certainly, at minimum, a violation of his provider's Terms of Service. If it progresses to offline stalking or harassment then yes, he's violated the law. > Attempted invasion of another user's privacy is certainly, at minimum, > a violation of his provider's Terms of Service. If it progresses to > offline stalking or harassment then yes, he's violated the law. Revealing someone's name is hardly an invasion of privacy, especially when he cites sources ON THE INTERNET. If it's on the Internet, it's public knowledge. No invasion of privacy. FAIL. > > Attempted invasion of another user's privacy is certainly, at minimum, > > a violation of his provider's Terms of Service. If it progresses to > > offline stalking or harassment then yes, he's violated the law. > > Revealing someone's name is hardly an invasion of privacy It is if they are choosing to be anonymous online. Of course, it also technically is only if they actually manage to get it right, which Jack T didn't. > especially when he cites sources ON THE INTERNET. Vaguely referring to having "seen it elsewhere on the net" is hardly citing sources. [insults deleted] I will defend my right to anonymity and you cannot stop me by force or convince me not to. > I will defend my right to anonymity and you cannot stop me by force or > convince me not to. If you wanted anonymity, you should've gone through an anonymizing web proxy. Otherwise, stop crying about it. > > I will defend my right to anonymity and you cannot stop me by force or > > convince me not to. > > If you wanted anonymity, you should've gone through an anonymizing web > proxy. Otherwise, stop crying about it. You can shove your anonymizing Web proxy up your arse -- I shouldn't have to resort to such exotic methods just to be safe from pissant little wannabe stalkers like Jack T! > Your attempts to violate the law have been reported to Telus and to > Google Groups. Expect to lose both accounts fucktard. You crossed the > line! You're a moron!!! Ha! I sited your name and your ISP. Now... (1) You yourself sited Joe Attardi's ISP just a few minutes ago. (2) Your name was announced by Hunter in comp.lang.java.programmer a few days ago. And it was announced in rec.games.roguelike.angband a while back. Just search google groups... You know how to do that, don't you? You stupid moron. Gee. Go. Complain. That way more people (and this case, the tech support) can laugh at your stupidity. You stupid dickless f.ck. Ha! >> Your attempts to violate the law have been reported to Telus and to >> Google Groups. Expect to lose both accounts fucktard. You crossed the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the tech support) can laugh at your stupidity. You stupid > dickless f.ck. Ha! Make sure you post once a day, Jack, so you can prove that Twisted is full of sh.t (and empty threats). Dear Comcast, Joe Attardi said mean things to me, and Jack T said....my name and ISP. Please take away their intarwebs! Love, Twisted [snip insulting caricature and some other BS] So far I've left Comcast out of it. You haven't seriously crossed the line ... yet. Jack T, on the other hand, in attempting to discover my real name, has revealed himself to be a more serious threat; heck if he'd not guessed wrong, he might even now be stalking me physically, with a knife or something, the nutjob, and I could be in genuine danger! Fortunately he did guess wrong, and he's just as doomed as Hunter was, since attempting to breach a user's choice of anonymity is a serious violation. > [snip insulting caricature and some other BS] > > So far I've left Comcast out of it. So you didn't even email them to begin with? I knew you were full of sh.t. > Jack T, on the other hand, in attempting to discover my > real name, has revealed himself to be a more serious threat; heck if > he'd not guessed wrong, he might even now be stalking me physically, > with a knife or something, the nutjob, and I could be in genuine > danger! Stop with the manufactured drama. > > [snip insulting caricature and some other BS] > > > So far I've left Comcast out of it. > > So you didn't even email them to begin with? I knew you were full of sh.t. No, I reported your abusive gmail-transmitted emails to Google, who apparently suspended your gmail/Google Groups privileges for a week or two. (This of course means that your purported postings to some web forums prove nothing.) [makes light of my being at risk from Jack T(he Ripper) hunting me down offline] How callous of you. > No, I reported your abusive gmail-transmitted emails to Google, who > apparently suspended your gmail/Google Groups privileges for a week or > two. Nope. My Gmail's been fine. Sorry, you fail! >(This of course means that your purported postings to some web > forums prove nothing.) Why do I have to prove anything to you anyway? If you want to believe that you managed to knock out my Gmail account for any (nonexistent) period of time, you can do that. But I can assure you no such knocking-out occurred. Not so much as a warning. Because your ridiculous claims have no merit. > [makes light of my being at risk from Jack T(he Ripper) hunting me > down offline] > How callous of you. Hunting you down? The guy said what your name is. That's an awful stretch, even for you. [snip some vicious insults and typical BS] > Hunting you down? The guy said what your name is. The implied threat is obvious. Of course, the fact that he got it wrong means I might not really have much to worry about. It might take him years to guess my real name, and a while longer to figure out my street address from that. At that point, judging by what evidence we have thus far for his abilities and competencies, he'll get lost and wind up in the deep northwestern woods being chased by angry bears, several hundreds of KM away from my home. And then he'll attempt in desperation to fight off the bears with his knife only to be holding it handle-outward. Then get eaten, then die. In that order. :P > The implied threat is obvious. There was no farking implied threat. Unless typing someone's name and ISP is an implied threat now, in which case you have implicitly threatened me!!!!!!!!!Oh noes!!! > nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > > The implied threat is obvious. > > There was no farking implied threat. Unless typing someone's name... Or at least something they think is someone's name... You're so smart? How about you tell me exactly what innocuous reasons he might have for prying into such matters and trying to find out my real name, given that I go to some effort to disconnect my online life from my real life? Let me guess: you can easily think up numerous nefarious reasons for such behavior but zero innocuous ones. I trust I've made my point. Besides being off-topic here, speculation as to any given poster's real offline name can serve no useful, constructive function, but is obviously useful if you wish to perpetrate or simply to incite offline harassment of some form. > No, I reported your abusive gmail-transmitted emails to Google, who > apparently suspended your gmail/Google Groups privileges for a week or > two. (This of course means that your purported postings to some web > forums prove nothing.) Riddle me this, then. How was I able to post to two mailing lists? http://sourceforge.net/search/?ml_name=cruisecontrol-user&type_of_search=mlists& group_id=23523&words=jattardi%40gmail.com http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?list=lucene&do=search_results&searc h_forum=forum_2&search_string=jattardi%40gmail.com&search_type=AND Again, fail. [snip insults] Go to hell. >> [snip insulting caricature and some other BS] >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> danger! > Stop with the manufactured drama. No, no! Don't stop! This is getting so hilariously funny that I really want it to go on. I've never seen such a paranoid nut-case at Twisted/nebulous99 during all my years on Usenet. And the best thing is that it is a multi-threaded comedy running in several threads in several Newsgroups. Keep it coming. :-D This was probably very insulting, Twisted. So I will spare you the trouble og looking up my real name/ISP: My real name is Dag Sunde, and I live in Arendal, Norway. My ISP is Song Networks, Oslo, Norway. I have "insulted" you before on several occations, so now I can't wait for you to report me, and get my internet connection terminated. SignatureDag. > This is getting so hilariously funny that I really want it to go on. > I've never seen such a paranoid nut-case at Twisted/nebulous99 during > all my years on Usenet. > And the best thing is that it is a multi-threaded comedy running in > several threads in several Newsgroups. See! Finally, someone else who understands why I just can't stop replying!! Although, once the majority of posters in this group wake up in a few hours, they are going to be so pissed at all the flaming that's been going on! Sorry guys! [unprovoked attack post] The various negative things about me that this imbe...vidual implied and stated are false. > several Newsgroups. Eh? Is someone from here badmouthing me in another newsgroup to try to do it behind my back? > [unprovoked attack post] > > The various negative things about me that this imbe...vidual implied > and stated are false. Because you say so? LOL >> several Newsgroups. > > Eh? Is someone from here badmouthing me in another newsgroup to try to > do it behind my back? I every newsgroup you post, my little twisted friend. ;-) SignatureDag. > nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > > [unprovoked attack post] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Because you say so? And the insults are true just because *you* say so? Even though I'm clearly a more knowledgeable person on the subject of me than you are? > I every newsgroup you post, my little twisted friend. ;-) Not according to my various checks. Most of them are quiet. The only one in which I've recently been flamed is this one. And I'd much rather it stayed that way; if you go intentionally posting OT insulting posts in other newsgroups just to spread the conflagration your conduct WILL be reported to your internet provider. >> nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: >>> [unprovoked attack post] [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Even though I'm clearly a more knowledgeable person on the > subject of me than you are? You probably are at that. But you could start a little poll, to check: 1.) how many really sympatize with your behaviour vs. 2.) how many think you are hilariously funny, and have paranoid tendencies. I'm faily certain that point 2 will get an overwhelming majority ov votes. >> I every newsgroup you post, my little twisted friend. ;-) > > Not according to my various checks. You have to learn how to search newsgroups, then... > Most of them are quiet. The only one in which I've recently > been flamed is this one. I was not only talking about your _current_ behaviour, but your Usenet history (which draws a prerry clear picture of you). > And I'd much rather it stayed that way; > if you go intentionally posting OT insulting posts in other > newsgroups just to spread the conflagration There, your paranoid tendencies bleeds through again... > your conduct WILL be reported to your internet provider. Oh, Please do, please do! :-D SignatureDag. >>> nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> [unprovoked attack post] [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I'm faily certain that point 2 will get an overwhelming > majority ov votes. May I suggest that, if anybody is planning on voting 2, they also include the abuse address for their ISP to make things easier :) Dan. SignatureDaniel Dyer http//www.uncommons.org > May I suggest that, if anybody is planning on voting 2, they also include > the abuse address for their ISP to make things easier :) Oh, I can find that easily enough myself for anyone who dares cross the line and violate typical ToS agreements. > 2.) how many think you [insults deleted] Take a hike already. > I'm faily certain that point 2 will get an overwhelming > majority ov votes. I'm fairly certain you will get an overwhelming majority of votes -- for the 2007 God-Awful Spelling Award. :P > > Not according to my various checks. > > You have to learn how to search newsgroups, then... That suggestion is insulting, not to mention what you're implying is simply false. The only newsgroup I post to that currently plays host to any assholish behavior of the sort you're displaying is this one. The others are quiet now, although some do have past, long-dead flames in them. [snip more insults] [nothing left] >> 2.) how many think you [insults deleted] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm fairly certain you will get an overwhelming majority of votes -- > for the 2007 God-Awful Spelling Award. :P Hmmm... Personal attacks because of a couple of typos from an non-native English speaker? Isn't that what getting you so upset when it hits yourself? >>> Not according to my various checks. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The others are quiet now, although some do have past, long-dead flames > in them. Insulting? LOL! Don't be stupid! Everyone with access to Google can look up all the NG threads where you are involved with your braindead accusations of being insulted and that you have to defend yourself. PS! I have now insulted you so many times that I really expect you to take steps to cut my internet connection! (Or are you just full of air)? SignatureDag. > >> I'm faily certain that point 2 will get an overwhelming > >> majority ov votes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Hmmm... Personal attacks because of a couple of typos In a flame. If you'd made the typos in a normal, constructive, on- topic post I'd have let them slide. [a bunch more insults, all of which are false] You really need to shut up. >>>> I'm faily certain that point 2 will get an overwhelming >>>> majority ov votes. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > You really need to shut up. LOL I Win... SignatureDag. > > You really need to shut up. > > LOL > > I Win... You are clearly delusional. Seek professional help. > You are clearly delusional. Seek professional help. Well, if all you have to shoot back with is "You really need to shut up", then he kinda does win. Dag Sunde slays the troll! SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > > You are clearly delusional. Seek professional help. > > Well, if all you have to shoot back with is "You really need to shut > up", then he kinda does win. You are just as nutty as he is. I rebutted his latest round of insults and he claims to therefore have won? Give me a break! [insult deleted] I thought you were calling it quits? You're such a liar. :P > You are just as nutty as he is. I rebutted his latest round of insults > and he claims to therefore have won? Give me a break! How is "you really need to shut up" a rebuttal? > I thought you were calling it quits? You're such a liar. :P Don't call me names. Do I need to report you to your ISP? SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > > You are just as nutty as he is. I rebutted his latest round of insults > > and he claims to therefore have won? Give me a break! > > How is "you really need to shut up" a rebuttal? It's not; it's a parting shot. The rebuttals were earlier in the same post. > > I thought you were calling it quits? You're such a liar. :P > > Don't call me names. I have evidence to back up my claim, such as your promising to quit and indeed to killfile me, which you evidently have not done. > Do I need to report you to your ISP? Of course not, nor would it do you any good anyway; calling someone a liar, especially someone who *is* a liar, isn't against the terms of service of my provider. >> Don't call me names. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > liar, especially someone who *is* a liar, isn't against the terms of > service of my provider. I think you missed the point there, I was making fun of your ridiculous threats to complain to the ISP of anyone who is mean to you. SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > I think you [snip insult], I was [doing something mean and off-topic as usual] Yeah, yeah, we noticed, you arsehole. > threats to complain to the ISP of anyone who is mean to you. Eh? I only complain to the ISPs of people who cross the line into violating terms of service, such as committing privacy invasion and hacking. >> I think you [snip insult], I was [doing something mean and off-topic as usual] > Yeah, yeah, we noticed, you arsehole. Apparently you didn't, since you responded to the post in full. > Eh? I only complain to the ISPs of people who cross the line into > violating terms of service, such as committing privacy invasion and > hacking. Let me buy you a seat in the first-class cabin of the clue train. Here we go! There is lots of evidence to suggest that you are Paul Derbyshire. All of that evidence is in Usenet and mailing list archives, which are publicly available. Available to anyone who does a search. People who have started referring to you in here as Paul, Paul D, Paul Derbyshire, etc. have done so by drawing a conclusion based on his past behavior and your eerily identical behavior, etc. So, they're drawing a conclusion based on publicly available information. This violates nobody's TOS, and is hardly an invasion of privacy. You are so clueless. SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > >> I think you [snip insult], I was [doing something mean and off-topic as usual] > > Yeah, yeah, we noticed, you arsehole. > > Apparently you didn't, since you responded to the post in full. This non-sequitur is your idea of a rejoinder? You're an even bigger moron than I thought! [several more insults, and claims I'm that Paul guy again, and a bunch of bullshit] [parting insult] Go f.ck yourself assface. > [several more insults, and claims I'm that Paul guy again, and a bunch of bullshit] If you aren't Paul Derbyshire, then I should let you know that he is posing as you elsewhere on the Internets! Take this email from the OpenOffice.org mailing list: http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=117339&raw=true In particular the From and Reply-To headers. Stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't that Twisted's email in the Reply-To header? > [parting insult] The square brackets, they do nothing! > Go f.ck yourself assface. Assface! I like that one. For someone who whines about namecalling, you're doing an awful lot of it. [snip a whole lot of bullshit, insults, attempted invasions of privacy, and even posting what appears to be forged email and evidence of hacking] FOAD. > [snip a whole lot of bullshit, insults, attempted invasions of > privacy, and even posting what appears to be forged email and evidence > of hacking] Evidence of hacking?! Forged email!? You're a loon, Paul! News flash! I found it using Google. If it's publicly available through a Google search, it's NOT AN INVASION OF PRIVACY! SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > > [snip a whole lot of bullshit, insults, attempted invasions of > > privacy, and even posting what appears to be forged email and evidence > > of hacking] > > Evidence of hacking?! Forged email!? Well, it's not genuine, so forged, and the server it's on is not one where I believe you have the authorization to modify files, so hacking. > You're a loon, Paul! Stop insulting that Paul fella. He isn't even here to defend himself*, you miserable f.cker! How callous of you. [a bunch of nonsense snipped] You claim that just because you were able to deface someone else's Web site and plant there "evidence" of your nonsensical claims, that this somehow makes me wrong? Er, sorry, it doesn't work that way a.shole. *Well there's the *slight* chance that he's here under a 'nym somewhere. Perhaps he's the mysterious Mr. X who posted about Eclipse policy files, or MVB, or one of several other mysterious nyms. Or even a false name. Given the nasty things you keep saying about him, it's certainly not out of the question that it's Jack T. For that matter, *you* might be this Paul fella. But the odds are high that he simply isn't here. It's a planet of six and a half billion people while this newsgroup has what, maybe 200 regular posters? And he's just one random person. > Well, it's not genuine, so forged, and the server it's on is not one > where I believe you have the authorization to modify files, so > hacking. > You claim that just because you were able to deface someone else's Web > site and plant there "evidence" of your nonsensical claims, that this > somehow makes me wrong? Er, sorry, it doesn't work that way a.shole. You're implying that I hacked the OpenOffice.org email archive? Give me a break. You're grasping at straws now, aren't you! You're resorting to making completely libelous statements. Furthermore, you are simply _claiming_ it's forged. You are clinging to the delusion that you have a right to privacy online, so of course you would say that. You know and I know that nothing is forged, it's a farking mailing list archive. From the message headers: From: Paul Derbyshire <redacted@rogers.com> Reply-To: twisted0n3@gmail.com <--- that's our boy! SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > You're implying that I hacked the OpenOffice.org email archive? No, I'm implying that you had it done. I very much doubt someone of your less-than-stellar intellectual capacity could hack their way out of a paper bag, but any dolt with a grudge and some money can hire an online saboteur or mercenary of some sort these days. > You're resorting to making completely libelous statements. You're one to talk! You've been doing that very thing since day one, and now you dare to accuse me of doing so? [insults me once again] Why aren't you dead yet? Nobody with a body as full of hate and bile as yours should survive for very long; it's medically proven that that sort of thing rapidly deteriorates everything from the cardiovascular system to the immune system. You ought to be wheezing, feeling pains in your left arm, and developing a few tumours at least, given the sheer load of toxic negativity you seem to carry around with you. Or does venting your spleen online prolong life under such conditions? I really need to research that. :P > No, I'm implying that you had it done. I very much doubt someone of > your less-than-stellar intellectual capacity could hack their way out > of a paper bag, but any dolt with a grudge and some money can hire an > online saboteur or mercenary of some sort these days. You know and I know that nobody hacked anything. The mailing list archive speaks for itself, Paul. Stop with the bullshit about hacking and just admit the truth, for once. > Why aren't you dead yet? Congratulations for sinking to a new low. Hoping someone dies because of an argument online? That's awesome. > Nobody with a body as full of hate and bile > as yours should survive for very long; it's medically proven that that > sort of thing rapidly deteriorates everything from the cardiovascular > system to the immune system. Are you a M.D. now? SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com [again incorrectly identifies me with that Paul person] > > Why aren't you dead yet? > > Congratulations for sinking to a new low. Hoping someone dies because of > an argument online? That's awesome. Who said anything about hoping? I was simply curious, that's all. Mind you, you've not given me very much reason to want you to stick around; you're a thorn in my side. A little prick, so to speak. > > Nobody with a body as full of hate and bile > > as yours should survive for very long; it's medically proven that that > > sort of thing rapidly deteriorates everything from the cardiovascular > > system to the immune system. > > Are you a M.D. now? Have been for years, dipshit. Paul Derbyshire wrote: > [again incorrectly identifies me with that Paul person] Explain then why your email address is Paul Derbyshire's Reply-To address. And don't give me some bullshit about hacking; nobody hacked the OpenOffice.org mailing list. Secondly, why does your MySpace page http://myspace.com/twisted0n3 (note the username, same as his email address) give your name as Paul? Then there's Paul Derbyshire's Home Page at http://66.39.71.195/Derbyshire/index.html. Specifically, about 2/3 down the page: "In Quake circles they call me Twisted." > Who said anything about hoping? I was simply curious, that's all. Mind > you, you've not given me very much reason to want you to stick around; > you're a thorn in my side. A little prick, so to speak. You've stated before that you must defend your reputation so that prospective employers wouldn't see you being a "floormat". You don't care that prospective employers would see you asking someone "Why aren't you dead yet?" and telling people to "f.ck off and die"? Wouldn't THAT keep someone from hiring you, too? > Have been for years, dipshit. Somehow I doubt that... SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > Paul Derbyshire wrote: > > [again incorrectly identifies me with that Paul person] Deliberately misattributing when quoting on Usenet is evil. Don't do it. [snip some repeated bullshit based on the forged emails and some more bullshit about my nonexistent MySpace page] I don't use MySpace. If there's a "twisted0n3" there it isn't me. It's probably you, planting more "evidence" to support your vicious and unjustifiable attack campaign. > Then there's Paul Derbyshire's Home Page athttp://66.39.71.195/Derbyshire/index.html. Specifically, about 2/3 down > the page: "In Quake circles they call me Twisted." What a coincidence. In first person shooter circles that kind of nickname is damned common -- I'll bet there are thousands of Twisteds that play Quake. Note also no "0n3" at the end. [what the hell kind of color scheme is that? And why would he host it at a raw IP?] [snip more insults, and a futile attempt to convince me that "resistance is futile"] If resistance is really futile and I'm f.cked no matter what I do, then I've nothing to lose by continuing to oppose you, right up to and including with my dying breath, you piece of sh.t. On the other hand if resistance is not futile I might actually win, you piece of sh.t. So why don't you stick THAT up your a.s and smoke it? You piece of sh.t. No matter what, you've earned a permanent enemy Attacki. You have given me reason enough now to hound you and make your life a living hell by whatever legal methods are available to me. If you're going to destroy me and make my life a shambles, then I will do the same to you. I'll drag you down with me. It's called mutually assured destruction -- MAD, a perfect acronym if ever there was one. Keep up your madness and before you know it you'll be up to your neck in a kettle of boiling sh.t and I'll be the one stoking the fire. End your attacks now and you might actually be able to get on with your life more-or-less intact. Otherwise ... See you in hell! Paul Derbyshire wrote: > [snip some repeated bullshit based on the forged emails and some more > bullshit about my nonexistent MySpace page] They aren't forged. You know it and I know it. So stop lying. > I don't use MySpace. If there's a "twisted0n3" there it isn't me. It's > probably you, planting more "evidence" to support your vicious and > unjustifiable attack campaign. If you say so. > What a coincidence. In first person shooter circles that kind of > nickname is damned common -- I'll bet there are thousands of Twisteds > that play Quake. Note also no "0n3" at the end. Note also no "0n3" at the end of the username you post under here. > [snip more insults, and a futile attempt to convince me that > "resistance is futile"] Huh? When did I say "resistance is futile" ? > If resistance is really futile and I'm f.cked no matter what I do, > then I've nothing to lose by continuing to oppose you, right up to and > including with my dying breath, you piece of sh.t. Your dying breath? You need to calm down, seriously. > On the other hand > if resistance is not futile I might actually win Win at what? > No matter what, you've earned a permanent enemy Attacki. Sorry, not my name. > You have > given me reason enough now to hound you and make your life a living > hell by whatever legal methods are available to me. You have zero legal methods available to you. I posted evidence of what your name is... that is illegal? > If you're going to destroy me and make my life a shambles How am I doing this? > you'll be up to your neck in a > kettle of boiling sh.t and I'll be the one stoking the fire. How can you accuse me of an attack campaign when every other word out of your mouth now is a threat? Threats which are becoming more and more serious. > End your > attacks now and you might actually be able to get on with your life > more-or-less intact. Otherwise ... I've had enough of your threats. SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > I've had enough of your threats. Since I wasn't clear on this, let me expand on it. I've had enough of your threats so I am finally bowing out of this discussion. You've wasted enough of my time and energy. Good riddance Mr. Derbyshire. SignatureJoe Attardi jattardi@gmail.com > > I've had enough of your threats. > > Since I wasn't clear on this, let me expand on it. > I've had enough of your threats so I am finally bowing out of this > discussion. Good riddance then. Although calling this a "discussion" is like calling that spot of trouble the Americans had with the Japanese in the Pacific back in the forties a "trade negotiation". > You've wasted enough of my time and energy. *gasp* This line is frankly unbelievable. You're the w.nker who's voluntarily donated hundreds of hours to posting scathing critiques of "Twisted" to a newsgroup where "Twisted" is not the charter topic. I'm the guy who's stoically defended himself and been forced to waste hours of time doing so in order to thwart your destructive aims. You have some f.cking nerve. This is rather as though one man were minding his own business one day shopping or browsing when another accosted him with a sword and the first had to draw his and defend himself or be stabbed. The attacker could just walk away without any consequences for the mild-mannered target would just return to his original business. Of course if the target quit fighting the attacker would kill him. So the attacker has the choice of how to spend their time, attacking or doing something else. The target has no choice; it's defend or die. > Good riddance Mr. Derbyshire. That's not my name, asshat. In case you'd forgotten. Sheesh! [misattributes things written by Twisted *again*] > They aren't forged. You know it and I know it. So stop lying. They are forged. You know it and I know it. So stop lying. > Note also no "0n3" at the end of the username you post under here. Irrelevant. > > [snip more insults, and a futile attempt to convince me that > > "resistance is futile"] > > Huh? When did I say "resistance is futile" ? You claimed that if I continue to resist you I'm doomed. Of course, if I give in to you I'm certainly doomed. So you claimed I was doomed no matter what, i.e. that resistance was futile. > Win at what? At stopping you from causing the damage you're trying to cause you miserable piece of sh.t. What do you think? You are fighting me. You've decided to make war, apparently total war until one side or the other has been utterly destroyed. That means there's a winner and there's a loser, in case you hadn't figured that out. Moron. [snip further bogus claims that invasion of privacy is legal] Not in my jurisfuckingdiction it ain't. > > If you're going to destroy me and make my life a shambles > > How am I doing this? What the f.ck do you think all of this is? It's you trying to destroy me and me trying to prevent you. And if you keep it up much longer, me trying to destroy you rather than just produce a tie game. > How can you accuse me of an attack campaign [snip irrelevancies] Because you're f.cking attacking me, you f.cking moron! Are you genuinely that f.cking dense?? My God! 99% of your posts to comp.lang.java.programmer are attacks against Twisted; of your posts in the last few days all but one (and that one was a token on-topic post that proves you don't know beans about Java; "why should objects be immutable" indeed!)...the statistics are amazing. Your primary use for this newsgroup is as a platform for character assassination of Twisted; Java discussion comes a distant second, and there's good reason to suspect the sole reason you post anything on-topic at all is to sort of alibi yourself against accusations that your sole reason for posting to the group is to attack me. Which means all I can *prove* is that your *primary* reason for posting is to attack me, without proving it's your *sole* reason. :P In the peacetime before this latest campaign of harassment and character assassination, I was occasionally posting helpful, on-topic posts while you were posting ... nothing. You only ever post when there's a fight going on. Do you really need to ask how I can accuse you of an attack campaign under these circumstances? The very question is mind-bogglingly insane in this context! > I've had enough of your threats. Oh really? And if I make another one, you'll what, exactly? On Aug 9, 6:01 pm, Paul Derbyshire wrote: > "why should objects be immutable" indeed!) If I want to change one of the properties of an object before I persist it back to the DB, why would I want the object to be immutable? > On Aug 9, 6:01 pm, Paul Derbyshire wrote:> "why should objects be immutable" indeed!) No, *I* wrote that, not Paul. And I thought we were rid of you? > If I want to change one of the properties of an object before I > persist it back to the DB, why would I want the object to be immutable? Yes, some mutable objects (holders, containers, etc.) make sense, but value objects like math values and hash keys and often times most of the "domain objects" in the program should be immutable. [nothing but insults, none of which are true] Yeah, yeah. Get it all said while you still have a working connection. > [nothing but insults, none of which are true] > > Yeah, yeah. Get it all said while you still have a working connection. Wow Twisted, you're such a f.cking tough guy because you email people's abuse departments. What a pussy. [purely off-topic, purely insulting post deleted] False. > On Aug 4, 6:31 am, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you still insist on defending your argument > to the bitter stupid end. When people insult me, yes, I do defend myself. What? I should just lie down and die instead, on your say-so? Yeah. You wish. [more insults deleted, sprinkled with a bit of Java code to make it look at first glance like it might actually have been on-topic] On Aug 4, 1:58 am, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > Some obscure blog posting from a blog no-one reads. That's your > evidence against me? java.net is hardly an obscure site. You should read it, though some blog postings are fluff, there is a lot of good stuff from a lot of knowledgeable people at Sun. > On Aug 4, 1:58 am, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote:> Some obscure blog posting from a blog no-one reads. That's your > > evidence against me? > > java.net is hardly an obscure site. You should read it, though some > blog postings are fluff, there is a lot of good stuff from a lot of > knowledgeable people at Sun. Really. Well why haven't I heard of it then? And when did it become required reading, on pain of vicious flamage? I already spend too much time out of each day catching up on blogs; I hardly need yet another one added to the pile. Not to mention too much time out of each day catching up on usenet; I never seem to actually get finished, because by the time I am done replying some turkey has already posted a nasty response that requires rebuttal. :P > Really. Well why haven't I heard of it then? And when did it become > required reading, on pain of vicious flamage? Vicious flamage? I simply told you it was not obscure, and suggested that you read it, because it is a good site. Sensitive much? > > Really. Well why haven't I heard of it then? And when did it become > > required reading, on pain of vicious flamage? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Sensitive much? I wasn't referring to your post; I was referring to the vicious post that started this whole mess, apparently from someone who does indeed consider that blog required reading "or else". Regardless, there must be a less nasty way of notifying Java programmers of such a change than by waiting for them to refer to the old version of whatever changed in cljp and then jumping down their throat for being unaware of the change! On Aug 3, 10:58 pm, nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > > Because it does cause problems, but not consistently. As <http:// > > weblogs.java.net/blog/alexfromsun/archive/2005/11/ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Some obscure blog posting from a blog no-one reads. That's your > evidence against me? What about the first google hit for "swing event dispatch thread": <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/concurrency/ index.html> That page lays out the threading responsibilities of Swing programmers, and the *very next page* in the trail contains an example snippet: Sun posted: > You can see examples of this throughout the Swing tutorial: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > } > }" That same example is the *second* link for the google search "java event dispatch thread". But let's say you don't know anything about event dispatch threads at all! Let's say you're just getting started with Swing. Searching google for "swing tutorial" gets you the Sun JFC/Swing tutorial at <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/>. The inline examples mostly use SwingUtilities; the few remaining examples of the "old way" are slowly being corrected by Sun. In JavaSE 6, a lengthy note was added to the API documentation for the javax.swing package (<http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/api/javax/ swing/package-summary.html#package_description>) outlining how and why Swing classes are thread-unsafe and how to use them correctly. It's reasonable to expect developers to check the API docs for APIs they use under new versions of the JDK sooner or later. On Aug 3, 10:58 pm, nebulou...@gmail.com continued: > > public static void main(String args[]) { > > SwingUtilities.invokeLater(new Runnable() { [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > do hope it's not now true that all console apps however trivial > generate a useless EDT wasting memory and slowing down startup? SwingUtilities' invokeNow and invokeAndWait methods both reliably create and start the EDT if it isn't running, just like any GUI component. This isn't as well-documented as it could be (you have to read between the lines a bit in the API javadocs), but the tutorials do make it very clear that this is what these two methods will do. > Also, ISTR SwingUtilities being a third-party (but commonplace) class, > not a standard Java class at all. Are you sure that one of the primary |
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