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Java Forum / General / July 2007Finding the front-most window
I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most window on a windows computer. In addition, I will need to access information about open applications such as itunes (which song is playing). How would I go about doing this? > I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most > window Yes, we know, we know! We heard you the first dozen times! I won't hear the next dozen though... *plonk* sherm--  SignatureWeb Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net >> I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most >> window > > Yes, we know, we know! We heard you the first dozen times! > > I won't hear the next dozen though... *plonk* Apparently they missed the earlier advice to stop nagging. SignatureLew > >> I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most > >> window [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Apparently they missed the earlier advice to stop nagging. He's using GG. He didn't see any of his posts appear, nor any of the replies, so his behavior was not unreasonable assuming that he didn't have any out-of-band access to this information (the way I did via a read-only NNTP server). Cut him some slack, both of you. >>>> I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most >>>> window [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > have any out-of-band access to this information (the way I did via a > read-only NNTP server). Cut him some slack, both of you. No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice, and if GG is cranky, that only increases the burden on the users not to be pains in the a.s. SignatureLew > No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice[rest ignored] What part of "The vast majority of GG users have no alternative news posting option" don't you understand, Lew? Quit being such an ... aristocrat. We aren't all so well-endowed in the NNTP department as you are these days, and through no fault of our own*. So get off your high horse. * Rather, I suspect that the lack of real broadband competition that is endemic to North America these days may have something to do with it. >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice[rest ignored] > > What part of "The vast majority of GG users have no alternative news > posting option" don't you understand, Lew? I think the reason people don't use NNTP is simple ignorance: they know about the Web, E-mail and quite possibly IM but probably haven't heard of NNTP or FTP. They can't install a client for a service they've never heard of. I know of several ISPs that don't run news servers and others that do but don't support the binary newsgroups. However neither is a show stopper because there are free and subscription news servers out there that anybody can use. I've yet to hear of any ISP that blocks NNTP traffic completely. If you know of any, kindly post details so I'll know to avoid them. > * Rather, I suspect that the lack of real broadband competition that > is endemic to North America these days may have something to do with > it. That's irrelevant. NNTP works perfectly well over a 56Kb dial-up connection. I used the excellent (and free) Forte Free Agent that way for a year or three until I was able to get broadband. Signaturemartin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | On Jul 21, 12:12 pm, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> wrote: > I know of several ISPs that don't run news servers and others that do > but don't support the binary newsgroups. Some areas have none of the latter, at least when not counting dial- up. > However neither is a show stopper because there are free news servers out there > that anybody can use. Really? Any that don't require you to not mung your email and that either don't have nasty posting limits or do make it easy to create multiple accounts? > and subscription news servers out there that anybody can use. Anybody with a credit card, you mean. That's a far cry from "anybody". > > * Rather, I suspect that the lack of real broadband competition that > > is endemic to North America these days may have something to do with > > it. > > That's irrelevant. NNTP works perfectly well over a 56Kb dial-up > connection. It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else besides NNTP and you're not crazy or rich enough to wastefully pay for two ISPs every month instead of one, just to get the service you should be able to get from just the broadband one! > On Jul 21, 12:12 pm, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Some areas have none of the latter, at least when not counting dial- > up. Kindly name them. Otherwise you're just waving a straw man. >> However neither is a show stopper because there are free news servers out there >> that anybody can use. > > Really? Any that don't require you to not mung your email and that > either don't have nasty posting limits or do make it easy to create > multiple accounts? I wouldn't know what their policies might be: the ISPs I've used have all had news servers. So does my ADSL supplier. I just know they exist because from time to time I see people recommending them. >> and subscription news servers out there that anybody can use. > > Anybody with a credit card, you mean. That's a far cry from "anybody". If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card. Apart from people using an employer's connection the only sizable group with free Internet use are students, and most of them seem to have flexible friends these days. > It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else > besides NNTP It used to take under 10 mins a day to pull down the day's newsgroup posts at 56 KB. That leaves 99.3% of your daily capacity for other purposes. > and you're not crazy or rich enough to wastefully pay for > two ISPs every month instead of one, just to get the service you > should be able to get from just the broadband one! Excuse me, but you're just wittering now. First you complain that US broadband is too slow to support an NNTP client (but is apparently still fast enough to handle the same number of NNTP messages after they've been bulked up with a load of Google-generated HTML frippery. I point out that even a dial-up connection can easily handle the load a daily news download and you go off into a fugue about needing two dialups and a shed load of money to pay for them. Try dealing with the points people have raised for a change and do your best not to drag in irrelevancies if you don't understand the argument. Its really not hard to do if you'll just concentrate. Signaturemartin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | On Jul 21, 5:29 pm, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> wrote: > nebulou...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jul 21, 12:12 pm, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Kindly name them. Otherwise you're just waving a straw man. Oh come off it. You can start with just about the whole continent of North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since it's bloody enormous. > I wouldn't know what their policies might be: the ISPs I've used have > all had news servers. So does my ADSL supplier. Lucky you. What about the rest of the world? > > Anybody with a credit card, you mean. That's a far cry from "anybody". > > If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card. Maybe ISPs in your neck of the woods only take credit cards but over here they accept cheques and paying via your bank in other ways, with only a normal checking account needed and no credit. > > It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else > > besides NNTP > > It used to take under 10 mins a day to pull down the day's newsgroup > posts at 56 KB. That leaves 99.3% of your daily capacity for other purposes. Dial-up is useless for everything from real-time gaming to downloading new versions of the JDK. If you don't have a net connection that can finish downloading a JDK in the same month you started the download what the devil are you doing in cljp anyway? > First you complain that US broadband is too slow to support an NNTP > client That's something you just made up out of whole cloth. I never claimed anything of the sort. I said US broadband doesn't provide NNTP service whatsoever. An NNTP reader is therefore worthless unless you have a third-party NNTP account somewhere, or you use it read-only since there's quite a few free NNTP servers that don't permit posting through them, and some that permit reading for free but posting only if you pay. I use one of those to check propagation since GG sometimes posts a message internally without it actually going anywhere else. Indeed, I had that happen to a posting here recently and would never have known the message failed to go anywhere if I didn't use that NNTP host. Also I wouldn't have known my posts during the GG screwup of the past week were succeeding without it -- I'd have ended up reposting dozens of copies of everything like f0rest did. But I'm still stuck using GG to post, barring a decent free posting-permitting NNTP server, and my ISP (and every broadband ISP on this entire continent that I'm aware of) doesn't provide one for its customers to use. > I point out that even a dial-up connection can easily handle the load a > daily news download and you go off into a fugue about needing two > dialups and a shed load of money to pay for them. No. I said no broadband ISPs provide bundled news service any more. You then said dial-up ones do. But that means either giving up any kind of decent throughput or paying for two ISP services instead of one. The latter is just as needlessly expensive as paying extra for just third-party NNTP, if not more so, although at least an ISP would take cheques. > Try dealing with the points people have raised for a change and do your > best not to drag in irrelevancies if you don't understand the argument. No, it is you who doesn't understand the argument. You seem to completely misread my posts, or else just make things up and then put words in my mouth. Perhaps you should refrain from following up to any more news articles until you've taken a remedial course in reading comprehension. > On Jul 21, 5:29 pm, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since > it's bloody enormous. OK, so you don't actually know of any. Thanks for the confirmation. >>> Anybody with a credit card, you mean. That's a far cry from "anybody". >> If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card. > > Maybe ISPs in your neck of the woods only take credit cards but over > here they accept cheques and paying via your bank in other ways, with > only a normal checking account needed and no credit. That was your implication, not mine. >> First you complain that US broadband is too slow to support an NNTP >> client > > That's something you just made up out of whole cloth. I never claimed > anything of the sort. Quote: "It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else besides NNTP and you're not crazy or rich enough to wastefully pay for two ISPs every month instead of one, just to get the service you should be able to get from just the broadband one!" > I said US broadband doesn't provide NNTP service whatsoever. .... > No. I said no broadband ISPs provide bundled news service any more. Make up your mind, chum. Pick one story or the other and stick to it. Signaturemartin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> failed to shut the hell up: > > Oh come off it. You can start with just about the whole continent of > > North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since > > it's bloody enormous. > > OK, so you don't actually know of any. Thanks for the confirmation. What? North America doesn't qualify as a big enough "area" to count in your books? How fascinating. > >> If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That was your implication, not mine. Wrong: On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> failed to shut the hell up: > > On Jul 21, 5:29 pm, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> > > wrote: > >> If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card. Putting the attributions together with that line makes it clear that it was YOU who asserted that having Internet service automatically means having a credit card. That claim is untrue, at least of North American ISPs. > >> First you complain that US broadband is too slow to support an NNTP > >> client [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else > besides NNTP You'd said dial-up ought to be enough for anybody (not in those exact words). I responded to the effect that the lower speed of dial-up is a problem (relevant) if you use your net connection for very much else besides NNTP. In other words, NNTP may work fine over dial-up, and a few other things (including email if you don't get much spam), but nearly everything more sophisticated is painful-to-impractical on dial-up. Which ought to be bloody obviously true. That you cannot apparently intelligently parse the meaning in the plain English I'm writing suggests that you should quit this debate now and go take a few refresher courses in grade-school English. > > I said US broadband doesn't provide NNTP service whatsoever. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > Make up your mind, chum. Pick one story or the other and stick to it. You failed to quote the context of the latter, which implied that I was talking about the region I'm in, rather than the whole damn planet. Anyway, you simply cannot argue against provable facts. Lew seems to have this same problem -- I point out that something they said is factually false and even disprove it mathematically and still you f.cking argue! On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:43:54 +0000, nebulous99 wrote: > On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> failed > to shut the hell up: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What? North America doesn't qualify as a big enough "area" to count in > your books? How fascinating. Not the whole continent. My ISP provides all of the alt.binary.* newsgroups, and probably similarly in every major metropolitan city. That covers the Eastern region from Boston to Norfolk, Dallas/Fort-Worth, the west coast, probably Honolulu, Chicago, St. Louis, etc. In terms of population, that's probably about 80% of the population with access to at least one broadband provider with ISPs /with a.b's/ ! Maybe the broad parts of unpopulated/sparsely-populated that make up a majority of North America don't have it, but such statistics are measured by population and not land for various reasons. > On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:43:54 +0000, nebulous99 wrote: > > On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <mar...@see.sig.for.address> failed [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Not the whole continent. My ISP provides all of the alt.binary.* > newsgroups, and probably similarly in every major metropolitan city. There is an eastern North America city of three-quarters of a million people neither of whose broadband providers provide any no-added- charge NNTP to subscribers. It will remain nameless for reasons of privacy and irrelevancy; it suffices that such a place exists to meet your criteria. That city, with that population, is nontrivial enough an "area" to count. >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice ... > >What part of "The vast majority of GG users have no alternative news >posting option" don't you understand, ... <http://www.javakb.com/> There are web based alternatives, but ultimately, the problems experienced by users of web interfaces to usenet (WITUN) are not, and should not become, the problems of group contributors in general. I say that as an experienced user of WITUN's (both GG and now JavaKB), who has occasionally run foul of other group members because of my use of a WITUN. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice ... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > usenet (WITUN) are not, and should not become, the > problems of group contributors in general. And how, pray tell, do you suggest that be arranged? If the WITUN screws up, it screws up and the consequences will affect every newsgroup. The posters there have no control over that. Did you think they did? As for people attempting a posting, and it failing to appear, then after several hours trying again, that is something that will happen if a normal NNTP server misbehaves in the same manner as well. Postings either disappearing or being queued locally for ages before eventually being posted successfully is by no means a unique problem of WITUNs. I've seen it at NNTP servers a time or two in the past, when you could actually find one to use that let you post without paying extra. As for this JavaKB, from the name I'm guessing it carries only this group and maybe other comp.lang.java.* groups, rather than a full feed, which makes it unuseful to me, since I read plenty of non-Java- related groups as well. >> >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice ... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >screws up, it screws up and the consequences will affect every >newsgroup. Those posts were appearing in the JavaKB WITUN 'as they happened' in GG. ... >..The posters there have no control over that. Did you think >they did? ...Did you even think to check, or are you more concerned with having a rant (as usual)? ... >As for this JavaKB, from the name I'm guessing it carries only this >group and maybe other comp.lang.java.* groups, rather than a full >feed, which makes it unuseful to me, since I read plenty of non-Java- >related groups as well. Not my concern. SignatureAndrew Thompson http://www.athompson.info/andrew/ > >..The posters there have no control over that. Did you think > >they did? > > ..Did you even think to check, or are you more > concerned with having a rant (as usual)? Oh come off it. Don't you think that if the GG membership could have made GG work properly again during that last week they would have? If they had control over it, don't you think they wouldn't have had it stop working properly in the first place? No, they were at the mercy of a bunch of Google's technicians who were, from all the evidence I could gather, sitting around with their thumbs up their a.ses for roughly 96 hours and then fixing it for 3 or 4 afterward. And one of whom probably screwed their systems up in the first place by forgetting rule numero uno in IT: "If it ain't broke, then for Christ's sweet sake DON'T FIX IT!" > > I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most > > window > > Yes, we know, we know! We heard you the first dozen times! > > I won't hear the next dozen though... *plonk* You again, being an arsehole again. Can't you see he's using google groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the message, getting told it "succeeded", and then not seeing it -- or any replies to it -- even after several hours. You would make multiple attempts given the same (lack of) information. >>> I'm working on a project which requires me to find the front-most >>> window [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You again, being an arsehole again. Now that isn't nice. It certainly wasn't necessary. And it tends to redound more to the name-caller than the victim. > Can't you see he's using google groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the > message, getting told it "succeeded", and then not seeing it -- or any > replies to it -- even after several hours. You would make multiple > attempts given the same (lack of) information. The isn't useful that Sherm provided that information to the OP? Why would you not want the OP to know what's happening? People who use GG should be responsible for it and not foolish with it. SignatureLew > > You again, being an arsehole again. > > Now that isn't nice. It certainly wasn't necessary. You forget the history Sherm and I have. I have substantial experience of his prior Usenet behavior and can say with near-certainty in my capacity as a licensed and practising Internet proctologist that yes, indeed, he is in fact a walking rectal orifice, with all the smells and emissions that implies. And apparently undergoing yet another violent disagreement with a questionable enchilada. Unfortunately he decided to plug said orifice by sticking a modem up it, and the result is that the emissions end up pouring into assorted newsgroups in a smelly, sodden mass... > > Can't you see he's using google groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the > > message, getting told it "succeeded", and then not seeing it -- or any > > replies to it -- even after several hours. You would make multiple > > attempts given the same (lack of) information. > > The isn't useful that Sherm provided that information to the OP? If you'd bothered to read the paragraph of my post that you quoted, you'd realize that he provided no information whatsoever to the OP. The OP never saw his response. Indeed, never saw his original post to which Sherm responded so rudely. As evidenced by his reposting the question yet again, under a very similar subject line. I know you saw this later repost, because you posted a (useless) followup. > Why would you not want the OP to know what's happening? There's no way to let the OP know what's happening, short of using my copious esper talents to contact him via telepathy. Posting will not work because he isn't seeing the new posts. By the time they appear for him he's already given up and posted a new one, and is now looking for that one to appear instead; when the older one appears way below the top of the list of threads he still won't see it since he'll be looking at the top for his more recent attempt assuming the previous one was a total loss since hours passed without it showing up making it clear it wasn't merely a short delay. > People who use GG should be responsible for it and not foolish with it. No, Google should be responsible for it. Instead they obviously would rather sit on their hands with their thumbs up their a.ses pretending the sky isn't falling, since that is what they can be observed to be doing, and all they can be observed to have done thus far about the situation. You forget also that most GG users *have no real alternative* -- if they did don't you think they'd be frigging using it right now? :P The problem is this conspiracy by major ISPs to stop providing bundled NNTP service to their customers for no additional charge. (It's a conspiracy, because they all did it nigh-simultaneously and not a one reneged and kept theirs so as to become more attractive than the competition. Smacks of an under-the-deal table in violation of antitrust and anti-price-fixing laws. I consider an agreement among companies "competing" in a market to all start charging the same for less as being just as much price-fixingesque as the classical case of agreeement to all start charging more for the same, of course. If it isn't illegal it damned well should be.) >>> You again, being an arsehole again. >> Now that isn't nice. It certainly wasn't necessary. > > You forget the history Sherm and I have. Forget? How can I forget what I never knew? And I certainly don't give a rat's a.s about your personal problems, so how about you keep them off Usenet? And stop trying to justify your horrid rudeness. > I have substantial experience > of his prior Usenet behavior and can say with near-certainty in my > capacity as a licensed and practising Internet proctologist that yes, > indeed, he is in fact a walking rectal orifice, ( blather, justification, blather ) God! Give it a rest. You're not clever, just petulant. And take it off the newsgroup. For someone who throws a hissy fit every time he imagines someone might have slightly impugned his reputation, you sure are ready to throw around the scatological epithets. You're only damaging your own reputation. SignatureLew > And stop trying to justify your horrid rudeness. Horrid rudeness is blasting and plonking a poor fellow because Google is being an a.s, where the "poor fellow" is not Google. Remember that this started when a guy posted the same thing every few hours (not every few seconds or even minutes, every few hours) because he didn't see any of the earlier copies (or any of their responses). Suppose you post some nasty little followup to what I'm writing now. It fails to show up promptly. What do you do? Probably chalk it up to delays of some sort and wait a while. If it's still not there in an hour or two repost it as an evident failure. Well, that is exactly what you and Sherm are criticizing this other fella for doing. Shame on you! Expecting people not to retry an apparently-failed action at decently long intervals is simply unrealistic. Expecting only users of GG to not retry but not users of other news services is not only unrealistic it's also elitist and discriminatory. Grow a conscience. > You again, being an arsehole again. Can't you see he's using google > groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the > message, getting told it "succeeded", and then not seeing it -- or any > replies to it -- even after several hours. You would make multiple > attempts given the same (lack of) information. sh.t! Someone must have hacked his Google Groups account too! > > You again, being an arsehole again. Can't you see he's using google > > groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > sh.t! Someone must have hacked his Google Groups account too! Actually, every GG user was affected with the same symptoms during that period, and there was nothing selective about the users or messages affected. That was just plain incompetence on someone's part over at Google HQ. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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