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Java Forum / General / April 2007is laziness a programer's virtue?
2007-03-29 Dear tech geekers, In a couple of posts in the past year i have crossed-posted (e.g. recently “What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities”, “is laziness a programer's virtue?”, “On Java's Interface (the meaning of interface in computer programing)” ), there are a some controversy, and lots of off-topic and careless follow ups. I think a few things today's tech geekers should remind themselves: • If you deem something off-topic to “your” newsgroup, and want to tech-geek by changing the “follow-up group”, start with yourself. Please do not cross-post yourself, and tweak the follow-up, and proudly proclaim that you changed the follow-up as a benign gesture. • Please remind yourself what is on-topic and off-topic. Unless you are the auhority of a online forum, otherwise, Meta-talk, and policing, are off-topic in general, and only tends to worsen the forum's quality. This issue is cleared up in online communications as early as early 1990s. • The facility of cross-posting is a good thing as a progress of communication technology, and the action of cross-posting is a good thing with respect to communication. What the common tech-geekers's sensitivity to cross-posting are due to this collective's lack of understanding of social aspects of communication. Cross-posting isn't a problem. The problem is the power-struggling male nature and defensiveness in propergating the tongues of a tech geeker's own. Tech-geeker's behavior towards cross-posting over the years did nothing to enhance the content quality of newsgroups, but engendered among computing language factions incommunicado, and aided in the proliferation of unnecessary re-invention (e.g. the likes of Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby that are essentially the same) and stagnation (e.g. the lisp camp with their above-it attitude). If you are a programer of X and is learning Y or wondering about Y, please do cross-post it. If your article is relevant to X, Y, and Z, please cross post it. If you are really anti-cross-posting, please use a online forum that is more specialized with controlled communication, such as mailing lists, developer's blogs, and website- based forums. I hope that the computing newsgroups will revive to its ancient nature of verdant cross communication of quality content, as opposed to today's rampant messages focused on politics, mutual sneering, closed- mindedness, and careless postings. References: “Tech Geekers versus Spammers” http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/tech_geekers_vs_spammers.html Netiquette Guidelines, 1995, by S Hambridge. (RFC 1855) http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 Xah xah@xahlee.org ∑ http://xahlee.org/ > In a couple of posts in the past year i have crossed-posted (e.g. > recently “What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities”, “is laziness a > programer's virtue?”, “On Java's Interface (the meaning of interface > in computer programing)” ), there are a some controversy, and lots of > off-topic and careless follow ups. Please don't dismiss so many posts as being "off-topic and careless". > I think a few things today's tech geekers should remind themselves: > > • If you deem something off-topic to “your” newsgroup, and want to > tech-geek by changing the “follow-up group”, start with yourself. > Please do not cross-post yourself, and tweak the follow-up, and > proudly proclaim that you changed the follow-up as a benign gesture. ... A few more points: - I know many geeks but not so many geekers... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=geeker - Please topquote snippets from the threads about which you are commenting. - Please set your newsreader to prepend "Re: " or somesuch when replying to a toplevel post. - Please don't preach about "meta-talk and policing" in a post which is mostly meta-talk and preaching. Thanks, Daniel >- Please topquote snippets from the threads about which you are commenting. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >- Please don't preach about "meta-talk and policing" in a post which is >mostly meta-talk and preaching. FYI "Please" is probably a word that XL ignores completely. Thus do what most humans in their sane state of mind would do. Killfile it. If for some reason you can't, then ignore it. Certainly, do not feed it. Michele  Signature{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr (($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB=' .'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_, 256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH, > • Please remind yourself what is on-topic and off-topic. Unless you You, Sir, ARE off-topic. I suggest you make the experiment to post your drivel on your web site and let your fans come to you. Should be an eye opener, this experiment. Regards -- Markus > If your article is relevant to X, Y, and Z, > please cross post it. Yeah right, and if it is not, don't post it at all. Your articles are nothing but a bunch of unfounded allegations, moralism and your personal notion of what alledgedly "hurts society". As such, they have no relevance at all in technical news groups. >> If your article is relevant to X, Y, and Z, >> please cross post it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > personal notion of what alledgedly "hurts society". As such, they have > no relevance at all in technical news groups. But we already had of topic discussions in some of those groups (meandering into the non technical) that weren't stomped upon by the group's subscribers. The difference in my eyes is, that Xah is a troll. What makes Xah a troll is neither off-topic posts nor being incoherent -- its the attitude. He's broadcasting his drivel to a number of groups not with the intention to discuss (he hardly ever answers to answers to his posts), but solely with the intention to inform the world at large about his own magnificient thoughts. As also evidenced by reposting some of his stuff (as if he had a fan community or as if it were a FAQ) or posting stuff dated from 2002. Trying to correct Xah's behaviour is probably impossible. People who publish pictures of themselves as he does on the WWW probably don't have any sense of embarrasment left -- and I consider that a necessary part in the feedback loop which makes people change: "Look what you did! Do you really want to look like a dolt in public?" "Umpf. No. God that was embarrasing" <goes away with the resolution not to get into such a situation again>. But that won't happen to Xah. Regards -- Markus > Trying to correct Xah's behaviour is probably impossible. People who > publish pictures of themselves as he does on the WWW probably don't > have any sense of embarrasment left ... you think of stuff like this www DOT m-e-leypold DOT de SLASH leypold-small.jpg ;-) > -- and I consider that a necessary > part in the feedback loop which makes people change: "Look what you > did! Do you really want to look like a dolt in public?" "Umpf. No. God > that was embarrasing" <goes away with the resolution not to get into > such a situation again>. The reason why I answered your posting at all (besides seeing your x-post going into 5 ng's) is your mentioning of 'God'. According to christian tradition (which is somehow on topic in a Perl group) it is exactly the case of Jesus (imho), who was (in his context) the "/Do you really want to look like a dolt in public/" man par excellance. Socrates also comes into the mind ;-) AFAIK - both were symptoms of the decline of their societies at the time ... Regards & sorry for scnr'ing Mirco remember - f'up to: comp.lang.perl.misc >> Trying to correct Xah's behaviour is probably impossible. People who >> publish pictures of themselves as he does on the WWW probably don't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > www DOT m-e-leypold DOT de SLASH leypold-small.jpg > ;-) ;-) No. This actually is a picture of myself I like (very much indeed), even if the long hair has gone now (I have to update the site some time within the next weeks, but the original site generator has died and the new site ain't ready yet). No, what I mean, is what one poster already posted to c.l.f, what you'll find looking for Xah Lee with Google image search and I won't link here. My warning: You probably don't want to see a picture of Xah's penis in full readiness. That is, what I consider embarrasing. > The reason why I answered your posting at all (besides > seeing your x-post going into 5 ng's) is your mentioning Your's too (you only changed the f'up) , and now I've done the ultimate sin and reset the F'up for this answer (if you post URLs to pictures of me, I reserve the right to say that I LIKE this picture :-) But that's the last x-post in this thread, I promise. Regards -- Markus On 17 Apr., 12:33, Markus E Leypold <development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: > What makes Xah a troll is neither off-topic posts nor being > incoherent -- its the attitude. He's broadcasting his drivel to a > number of groups not with the intention to discuss (he hardly ever > answers to answers to his posts), but solely with the intention to > inform the world at large about his own magnificient thoughts. This hits the nail on the head. Perhaps one could understand this behaviour on cultural grounds. In chinese culture it may be not uncommon to write something that merely sounds like great wisdom and it is nevertheless appreciated because it's a piece of calligraphic art. > Trying to correct Xah's behaviour is probably impossible. Perhaps somebody could ask the chinese government to put him in jail for "hurting international society" :) Markus E Leypold >> Trying to correct Xah's behaviour is probably impossible. > Perhaps somebody could ask the chinese government to put him in jail > for "hurting international society" :) Y'know, even in jest, calling for an oppressive regime to suppress even wrong-headed and self-serving garbage self-expression is immoral and horrible. How dare you? Free speech, free press and free expression of ideas is not something to take so lightly. SignatureLew > Markus E Leypold >>> Trying to correct Xah's behaviour is probably impossible. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Free speech, free press and free expression of ideas is not something to > take so lightly. That's right! Momma don't allow no levity around here! Off with Markus' head! :-D "Lew" ranted maniacally: >> Y'know, even in jest, calling for an oppressive regime to suppress even >> wrong-headed and self-serving garbage self-expression is immoral and >> horrible. How dare you? >> >> Free speech, free press and free expression of ideas is not something to >> take so lightly. > That's right! Momma don't allow no levity around here! > > Off with Markus' head! :-D As they walked off together, Alice heard the King say in a low voice, to the company generally, `You are all pardoned.' `Come, THAT'S a good thing!' she said to herself, for she had felt quite unhappy at the number of executions the Queen had ordered. - /Alice's Adventures in Wonderland/, Lewis Carroll > Markus E Leypold > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Y'know, even in jest, calling for an oppressive regime to suppress even > wrong-headed and self-serving garbage self-expression is immoral and horrible. You're right. I confess this joke was going too far. > Free speech, free press and free expression of ideas is not something to take > so lightly. I'm with you on this point. But, since the biggest crime in Xah Lee's opinion apparently is "harming" and "damaging" society through expression of ideas, it must be possible to judge him by his own standards. >On 17 Apr., 12:33, Markus E Leypold ><development-2006-8ecbb5cc8aREMOVET...@ANDTHATm-e-leypold.de> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Perhaps somebody could ask the chinese government to put him in jail >for "hurting international society" :) That's going to be tough because, according to his web page, he's living in a Honda Civic somewhere in Illinois, USA. http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/xah.html George -- for email reply remove "/" from address Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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