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Java Forum / General / March 2007

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PHP vs. J2EE

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Ershad - 26 Feb 2007 13:09 GMT
Hi
I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
which one is better than?
java good fo web! this is true.
but there is very good Project with PHP, e.g. Mombo,Joomla,PHPBB, and
Other. but for j2ee I dont Know any Known Project?
Andrew Thompson - 26 Feb 2007 13:42 GMT
..
> I want to compare Between j2ee and php?

Feel free to discuss it with someone that
cares (take it to c.l.j.advocacy).

Andrew T.
senior - 26 Feb 2007 13:43 GMT
> Hi
> I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
> which one is better than?
> java good fo web! this is true.
> but there is very good Project with PHP, e.g. Mombo,Joomla,PHPBB, and
> Other. but for j2ee I dont Know any Known Project?

PHP : Script language

j2ee : development framework

so we cannot compare between those two things
Alex Hunsley - 26 Feb 2007 14:32 GMT
> Hi
> I want to compare Between j2ee and php?

You sound unsure of yourself. You want us to tell you if you want to
"compare between J2EE and php"? I have no idea, only you can tell us that.

> which one is better than?

They're worlds apart. They are not even exactly the same sort of thing,
as someone else pointed out.

> java good fo web! this is true.
> but there is very good Project with PHP, e.g. Mombo,Joomla,PHPBB, and
> Other. but for j2ee I dont Know any Known Project?

J2EE is sitting behind a lot of big well known websites. It's just not
as obvious or well publicised, perhaps.
Lew - 26 Feb 2007 22:32 GMT
> J2EE is sitting behind a lot of big well known websites. It's just not
> as obvious or well publicised, perhaps.

Every United States federal government agency (SSA, HHS, DoEd.) has one or
more web sites or web services powered by J2EE. Many United States State
government web sites and web services are powered by J2EE. Many major
corporations use J2EE to power their web tech, including financial
institutions (T. Rowe Price, Citibank), insurance/health-care entities (the
Brazilian National Healthcare System), and many others (Shaklee Corp.).

- Lew
impaler - 26 Feb 2007 14:48 GMT
> Hi
> I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
> which one is better than?
> java good fo web! this is true.
> but there is very good Project with PHP, e.g. Mombo,Joomla,PHPBB, and
> Other. but for j2ee I dont Know any Known Project?

The IT industry is much more then a few CMSs or customizable forums.
http://java-source.net/open-source/web-frameworks

But as said before, can't compare apples with oranges
hthukral@sun - 26 Feb 2007 18:10 GMT
> Hi
> I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
> which one is better than?
> java good fo web! this is true.
> but there is very good Project with PHP, e.g. Mombo,Joomla,PHPBB, and
> Other. but for j2ee I dont Know any Known Project?

hi.

U know ,your approach to this question is legitimate...
J2ee is a java Server(enterprise edition ) ,
PHP is a SERVER SIDE SCRIPTING LANGUAGE , Moreover if we make a clear
cut comparison then JSP and PHP are both server side

I know u might be thinking of Embedding PHP in your Application .
Am i right ?
Ershad - 04 Mar 2007 13:40 GMT
you are right, is it possible?or no

hthukral@sun نوشته است:
> > Hi
> > I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I know u might be thinking of Embedding PHP in your Application .
> Am i right ?
Jeroen Wenting - 04 Mar 2007 15:21 GMT
hthukral@sun äæÔÊå ÇÓÊ:
> On Feb 26, 6:09 pm, "Ershad" <ershad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I know u might be thinking of Embedding PHP in your Application .
> Am i right ?

The main reason you don't "know any known projects" using J2EE is because
unlike php users Java users usually don't scream about it by having "php" in
every URL and providing the exact patchlevel of phpBB and phpNuke on every
page (very convenient for hackers I might add).

In the meantime, a good portion of all dynamic websites and online stores
(and especially the larger ones) are using J2EE without the customers
knowing about it (and why should they?).

Also, because J2EE is aimed more at the corporate market there are fewer
lowend hosting providers providing "free" J2EE services with their lowend
accounts, so it's used less for hobby sites.
Many companies using it will in fact have their own servers and either host
their own sites or have a colocation agreement with some hosting provider
who takes care of the network for them while they maintain their own server.

For scalability and performance, as well as security, there can be no
comparison. J2EE blows php away in all those areas.
Only when it comes to rapidly hacking together a prototype website without
thought for future maintenance does php win easily, as there's less backend
work involved in getting it set up.

PHP today is effectively where JSP was back in 1999 when Sun released JSP
0.9.
By now everyone using JSP in anger agrees that the way JSP 0.9 worked (which
is sadly still supported for backwards compatibility reasons), by mixing
Java code with html code, was a very bad idea.
Yet with php that's the only way you can work...
Arne Vajhøj - 06 Mar 2007 00:54 GMT
> For scalability and performance, as well as security, there can be no
> comparison. J2EE blows php away in all those areas.
> Only when it comes to rapidly hacking together a prototype website without
> thought for future maintenance does php win easily, as there's less backend
> work involved in getting it set up.

Do you think that characterization applies to Yahoo, Sourceforge
and Wikipedia ?

Arne
Chris Uppal - 06 Mar 2007 18:43 GMT
> > For scalability and performance, as well as security, there can be no
> > comparison. J2EE blows php away in all those areas.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Do you think that characterization applies to Yahoo, Sourceforge
> and Wikipedia ?

I assume that you mean that their front-ends (at least) are in PHP ?

It would be interesting to consider what "unusual" requirement -- if there are
any -- those sites have which make PHP a better match than for run-of-the-mill
Java-based e-commerce sites.

Noting that those three sites range from very well designed and considered
(Wikipedia), though not nice (Yahoo -- last time I looked), to dire
(Sourceforge), it doesn't seem to be correlated with design (in the "what the
user experiences" sense).

One possibility that occurs to me is that while all of them sustain (and have
to sustain) high loads, and provide reliable access, none of them has a
requirement for tight, immediate, coupling between the real data (contents) and
what given user will see.  It doesn't matter much if someone updates an article
on Wikipedia but other users don't see it for an hour or two.  I'm not so sure
about Yahoo (I never go there, so I have little idea what services they are
providing these days).  I'm not so sure about Sourceforge either, although it
does seem to me that their dynamic content is mostly just a front-end to
Subversion (they do use Subversion these days?).

What (other?) factors might there be ?

Anyone know how Amazon do their web front-ends ?

   -- chris
Arne Vajhøj - 14 Mar 2007 01:06 GMT
>>> For scalability and performance, as well as security, there can be no
>>> comparison. J2EE blows php away in all those areas.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I assume that you mean that their front-ends (at least) are in PHP ?

Correct.

> It would be interesting to consider what "unusual" requirement -- if there are
> any -- those sites have which make PHP a better match than for run-of-the-mill
> Java-based e-commerce sites.

Lower cost.

> Noting that those three sites range from very well designed and considered
> (Wikipedia), though not nice (Yahoo -- last time I looked), to dire
> (Sourceforge), it doesn't seem to be correlated with design (in the "what the
> user experiences" sense).

Of course - the HTML has nothing to do with the server side technology.

> One possibility that occurs to me is that while all of them sustain (and have
> to sustain) high loads, and provide reliable access, none of them has a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> does seem to me that their dynamic content is mostly just a front-end to
> Subversion (they do use Subversion these days?).

That is probably the most important factor.

I would word it slightly different: it is sites where the web app
is relative stateless and mostly untransactional.

But that is more or less the same that you say.

Arne
Arne Vajhøj - 27 Feb 2007 02:16 GMT
> I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
> which one is better than?
> java good fo web! this is true.
> but there is very good Project with PHP, e.g. Mombo,Joomla,PHPBB, and
> Other. but for j2ee I dont Know any Known Project?

There are usually no such thing as "better" when it comes
to comparing different software. It depends on what you need.

PHP is much easier to learn than J2EE. PHP can run on
much smaller hardware. PHP is easy to get a web hotel for.

J2EE is better in structuring large projects, for scaling
horizontally and for transaction processing.

PHP is widely used in forums/portals and general
information oriented web sites. And for hobby
web programming.

J2EE is widely used in financial sector, e-business,
gaming and similar places.

J2EE do have equivalents of PHPNuke/PostNuke/Mambo/
Joomla/PHPBB/Typo3, but they are not nearly as known
or widely used. For examples see:
  - OpenCMS http://www.opencms.org/
  - Liferay http://www.liferay.com/

Arne
sdemchenko@gmail.com - 05 Mar 2007 12:06 GMT
PHP is better for shared hosting (lots of customers / relatively
simple web-sites on the same server).
J2EE is better for complex applications, often one customer / a few
apps per server.
Frank D. Greco - 11 Mar 2007 22:35 GMT
"Ershad" <ershad.rm@gmail.com> sez:

>Hi
>I want to compare Between j2ee and php?
>which one is better than?

    Really two different things Ershad.

    PHP is a very popular scripting language for the web.
    J2EE, or more correctly these days "Java EE", is a server-side
    framework.

    PHP is great scripting language/tool for building web sites.  
    Many very popular CMS tools are built using PHP (e.g., Drupal, Joomla).
    Many forums on the web are based on PHP.  PHP is somewhat
    object-oriented with PHP 5.0.  Imho, it is way easier to put
    up web pages and small apps with PHP than Struts/JSF.  However, PHP
    is not the most secure tool.  A large-scale or enterprise project
    that used PHP and AJAX would have to be thoroughly reviewed for
    possible security issues (against the speed of development) of
    this combination.

    There's an "official" php site (www.php.net) to download the C-based
    module for Apache.  There's also a very cool pure-Java implementation of
    php from Scott/Steve over at Caucho (www.caucho.com) called Quercus.
    Loads of fun to play with; I've been trying to integrate db4o as
    a backend ODBMS instead of MySQL... hey Java is OO, right?  :)

    Jave EE (JEE) is a server-side framework that includes a collection of
    Java-based technologies: often-maligned EJBs, database access,
    transactions, database api, persistence abstraction, messaging,
    web UI, etc.  You don't have to use all the components of JEE
    to be considered a JEE app.  Some senior programmers skip the EJB part
    (see www.springframework.com and Rod Johnson).

    Basically PHP and Java EE are two different things.  But I wouldn't
    be surprised if Java EE adopted PHP in the near future especially
    with the recent emphasis on scripting languages (hmmm, didn't we
    do this 20 years ago?... but I digress).  Besides its hard
    to ignore the massive adoption of PHP for web designers/builders.

    Remember this programmer creed:  "Use the right tool for the job".

    Frank G.
    - NYJavaSIG Chair


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