Java Forum / General / October 2006
Anyone interested in a Java board game engine?
sam - 14 Oct 2006 21:53 GMT Hi there,
The topic for my university dissertation is "Design and Build a Java board game engine" and it is necessary for me to elicit requirements from the games industry (i.e. anyone who would be interested in using the completed engine for making an java-based 2D board game). SO...if anyone is interested in this project, I would really appreciate a reply, so that we could discuss requirements. Note, there will also be some user acceptance testing once the project is complete.
I know that it will take up some of your time, but I really want to ace
my degree so any help will be gratefully received
Thanks Sam
Mark Space - 15 Oct 2006 18:53 GMT > Hi there, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > reply, so that we could discuss requirements. Note, there will also be > some user acceptance testing once the project is complete. I don't really have a lot of time right now (maybe after the holidays) but this is a long time interest of mine, so maybe I can help a bit.
First, you are definitely not the first person to have this idea. Some research into public or open source projects that have proceeded you would be standard, I would think, for any dissertation. I can point out a few to you, but I would love to see a thorough list of academic research projects.
Here's my info dump to you:
First, check out Simple Game Format (SGF). This is a very old attempt to produce a universal board game type system: http://www.red-bean.com/sgf/
Next, one of the principle people behind SGF was William Shubert, who eventually produced a free, and excellent, computer board game for the Oriental game of Go: http://www.igoweb.org/~wms/comp/cgoban/
William Shubert's current project is a full Java based internet Go server in partnership with the Keseido publishing company. It's call the Keseido Go Server (KGS): http://kgs.kiseido.com/
There's a lot of information on KGS requirements on the net. Basically, Bill's been doing what you want to do as a side business for the last ten years or so. The principle KGS watering hole is at: http://senseis.xmp.net/
Here's a list of user requests from that site: http://senseis.xmp.net/?KGS#toc7
Here's my short list of requirements, off the top of my head: 1. Compatible with SGF 2. Talk to William Shubert and get his advice on how to extend SGF to more types of board games. 3. Compatible with bots on Keseido Game Server 4. Visit the gnugames project on gnu.org and collect requirements from them as well. 5. Visit senseis.xmp.net and collect requirements there also. 6. Include plans for servers as well as clients. Include internet play. 7. Don't forget about multiple player games. Both chess and go have four player variants. 8. Consider AI for playing board games. Visit the gnugo project and understand how they implement their AI and how they connect to other board game programs like CGOBAN and KGS. 9. Include a demo connecting gnugo to your program to show how external AI can be connected to any board game program. 10. Understand why William Shubert is NOT implementing his latest work as Open Source. 11. There are XML versions of SGF now. However, they are very verbose. I'd like to see a universal version of XML-SGF that includes very good compression for long term game record storage. (Not just Zip.) 12. There are other Java clones of CGOBAN now available. Understand what they are and what problems the profess to solve. 13. Most of those are for IGS (Internet Go Server). Go there and understand what UI issues it has. 14. Visit some other internet go sites and understand how they function as well. I'm not aware of any sites for chess or other board games. maybe you could find some?
Ok, I think I'm done for now. Please let this list know how everything goes.
Mark Space - 18 Oct 2006 22:57 GMT >> Hi there, >> >> The topic for my university dissertation is "Design and Build a Java >> board game engine" and it is necessary for me to elicit requirements
> Here's my info dump to you: Darn, I think I scared him off. :-(
Pawel Szulc - 19 Oct 2006 09:09 GMT just send him priv email. He might not be readin this grup anymore
> Darn, I think I scared him off. :-( sam - 19 Oct 2006 10:51 GMT > >> Hi there, > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Darn, I think I scared him off. :-( Hehe, nope not scared, just about 5 other assignments to do at the same time...Although some of the requirements do look a bit difficult to fulfil!
I'll discuss the requirements you provided with my dissertation supervisor, and take a look at the URLs you provided and then post back. Thanks a million!
p.s. its her not him (",)
Mark Space - 21 Oct 2006 01:34 GMT > Hehe, nope not scared, just about 5 other assignments to do at the same > time...Although some of the requirements do look a bit difficult to > fulfil! Ah yes, the end of the semester rush. Aren't student holidays fun?
"Difficult to fulfil" ... quality, schedule, resources ... scope. One of the most important words when dealing with customers is "No."
> I'll discuss the requirements you provided with my dissertation > supervisor, and take a look at the URLs you provided and then post > back. Thanks a million! Cool beans, I'm looking forward to that post.
> p.s. its her not him (",) Just curious, what's that symbol there at the end of the sentence. "Hang loose?"
sam - 21 Oct 2006 17:59 GMT um...Heehee? I just prefer it to :-)...
Anyway, when i said difficult to fulfil, i meant technically...Ive got some skills with Java programming, but for some of the requirements, I am quite baffled as to how I would implement them. I was thinking of requirements along the lines of the aesthetics or features of the engine (dont get me wrong, still very grateful for your input!)
In addition, the requirements you mentioned are based around specifically the board game Go. I was aiming to build a completely general engine, and only specialise it to a particular type of board game as a contigency in case I cant generalise. Did I not make this clear?
Thanks
Sam
Mark Space - 22 Oct 2006 08:06 GMT > In addition, the requirements you mentioned are based around > specifically the board game Go. I was aiming to build a completely > general engine, and only specialise it to a particular type of board Yes, that was clear from your post. It's just that most of my experience happens to be around go. I think it makes a good "use case" for other board games as well.
SGF was intended to be a completely general format. There's a little information on checkers, reversi (Othello?), and other games sprinkled through out the spec. It's just that the guy who did most of the work on it was mostly interested in go.
You might want to check out the gnugames project. They've got several board games, and they might match your own interests best. A lot of their work seems to have been done around card games, but there was still a strong presence for board games last I was on their list.
I don't think they (gnugames) are yet as sophisticated as some of the things being done for go currently. So using those things I mentioned originally about go might make for a good model to apply other board games. Which is why I kinda went on some much about go in the first place.
Of course, there might be other work being done for other games that I'm unaware of.
P. S. I dont' capitalize "go" any more than I capitalize "chess."
sam - 19 Oct 2006 10:53 GMT > >> Hi there, > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Darn, I think I scared him off. :-( Hehe, nope not scared, just about 5 other assignments to do at the same time...Although some of the requirements do look a bit difficult to fulfil!
I'll discuss the requirements you provided with my dissertation supervisor, and take a look at the URLs you provided and then post back. Thanks a million!
p.s. its her not him (",)
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