Java currency

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Jama - 09 Oct 2006 11:16 GMT

Is there any clearly defined currency for Java? For example, with
.NET, Microsoft clearly defines what versions are viable and what are
considered "legacy" - no longer under support.

With Java, it's fuzzy - at least to me. For example, how do I convince
management that it's time to upgrade to JSE 1.5? Is there a clearly
defined location where Sun states that JSE 1.4 (for example) is no
longer supported?

It's not as simple as saying "just use the latest". There are numerous
testing, distribution, and logistic issues associated with changing JVM
versions. Further, say Sun states that v1.3 is no longer under support
- but IBM says that WebSphere 5.0 *is* still supported (WS 5.0
implements JSE 1.3.1 I believe). It can get quite muddy.

Anyway, with platforms clearly owned by a company, like Microsoft .NET,
it's easy to propose an upgrade when the company slides its currency
window forward. With Java, it's a harder sell because there's no
clearly defined policy, other than use the latest and greatest.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jama

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Daniel Dyer - 09 Oct 2006 11:29 GMT

> Is there any clearly defined currency for Java? For example, with
> .NET, Microsoft clearly defines what versions are viable and what are
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> defined location where Sun states that JSE 1.4 (for example) is no
> longer supported?

I think it's pretty clear that Sun considers 5.0 to the current version
that people should be using where possible. It was released over 2 years
ago and we're currently on the 9th update release. Also, the final
release of 6.0 is not far away.

This notice from the download page for 1.3.1 sheds some light on the EOL
process:

"J2SE 1.3.1 has begun the Sun End of Life (EOL) process. The EOL
transition period is from Oct 25, 2004 until the General Availability (GA)
of the next Java version, Java SE 6. With this notice, customers are
strongly encouraged to migrate to the current release, J2SE 5.0."

"For developer needs, all products that have completed the EOL transition
period will be moved to the Archive area."

If Sun maintain this approach, we can expect 1.4.2 to begin a similar
transition following the release of 6.0.

Dan.

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Daniel Dyer
http://www.uncommons.org

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Daniel Dyer - 09 Oct 2006 11:41 GMT

> I think it's pretty clear that Sun considers 5.0 to the current version
> that people should be using where possible. It was released over 2
> years ago and we're currently on the 9th update release. Also, the
> final release of 6.0 is not far away.

That's "final" as in "first" ;)

Dan.

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Daniel Dyer
http://www.uncommons.org

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John Bailo - 09 Oct 2006 19:11 GMT

> Anyway, with platforms clearly owned by a company, like Microsoft .NET,
> it's easy to propose an upgrade when the company slides its currency
> window forward. With Java, it's a harder sell because there's no
> clearly defined policy, other than use the latest and greatest.

So, when I want to do remoting, do I use .NET 1.1 and WSE? Or, oh wait,
that's now Indigo. Mmmm. No. Scratch that, it's WCF -- and it's not
part of .NET -- or wait it is, and it's in NET 2.0.

And BTW .NET is going away and being replaced by various shells in Longhorn.

Nope, wrong again, there is no longhorne.

It's now...uh...Vista! Yeah that's it. And you need NET 2.0 or 3.0 or
....

Or you could just install Java.

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Texeme Construct

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Jama - 09 Oct 2006 23:20 GMT

> > Anyway, with platforms clearly owned by a company, like Microsoft .NET,
> > it's easy to propose an upgrade when the company slides its currency
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Or you could just install Java.

The point is not that .NET is better than Java. The point is that when
my company pays M$ on a support contract, it's an easy sell to
management to fund an upgrade when the support funding either increases
(because we are using an old version, like VB6), or disappears
altogether. Use Oracle or any other platform if .NET strikes a nerve.

However, with Java, we don't pay Sun anything. The "end-of-life"
process mentioned by someone else is what I'm looking for, but it's
still fuzzy.

Jama

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Daniel Dyer - 09 Oct 2006 23:35 GMT

> However, with Java, we don't pay Sun anything. The "end-of-life"
> process mentioned by someone else is what I'm looking for, but it's
> still fuzzy.

I found a more specific link:

http://java.sun.com/products/archive/eol.policy.html

So if you are using 1.4.2, you have just over a year and a half before Sun
stops supporting it.

Dan.

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Daniel Dyer
http://www.uncommons.org

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John Bailo - 09 Oct 2006 23:54 GMT

>>>Anyway, with platforms clearly owned by a company, like Microsoft .NET,
>>>it's easy to propose an upgrade when the company slides its currency
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> process mentioned by someone else is what I'm looking for, but it's
> still fuzzy.

So, you're saying that it's easier to sell management on a product that
is deemed absolutely DEAD, and hence needs upgrading, than it is on
java, where they maintain backward compatibility for years on end?

Suggestion: get some new management.

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Texeme Construct

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Tom Shelton - 10 Oct 2006 09:33 GMT

Bailo - that was lame.

--
Tom Shelton

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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen - 10 Oct 2006 16:35 GMT

> Bailo - that was lame.

No, it fit in .advocacy.

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Tom Shelton - 10 Oct 2006 22:42 GMT

> > Bailo - that was lame.
>
> No, it fit in .advocacy.