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Java Forum / General / September 2006AJAX v Applet
What are the pros of selecting AJAX over Applet/JApplet? (From both development and deployment perspectives). Kindly asking for your thoughts... > What are the pros of selecting AJAX over Applet/JApplet? (From both > development and deployment perspectives). > > Kindly asking for your thoughts... The browser who host an applet is a thick client: that's all. It works depending on the JVM installed on the client, need user to wait on start-up to download all the byte code, etc. A client that uses Ajax it not a thick client. Javascript is a standard, so should be installed on every browser, and is possible to implement cross-broweser web application. We still have start-up delay, but I think much less: js code is lighter than byte code. Accessibility: with Applet your web app can't be acccessible from every browser, Ajax instead could degrade to support a non-ajax browser. Appearence: we are on the web, what is better than HTML? Programming point of view: depends on how your code, but usually Applet is a monolit application, every change of the code need to recompile your class or classes. An Ajax application is still a web application: it is not monolit respect to the developer point of view. It's easier to presentation view from application logic for example, and you take advantage from web designer experts. >> What are the pros of selecting AJAX over Applet/JApplet? (From both >> development and deployment perspectives). [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > It's easier to presentation view from application logic for example, > and you take advantage from web designer experts. Just a note... An applet can be signed, and thus get access to the clients local file system, clipboard, printers, et.c. AJAX/JS can't. (It can be signed, but the additional access is limited). So if you need this kind of functionality, AJAX can't help you.  SignatureDag. > Javascript is a standard, ... unlike the browser's DOM. IE has its own variant of XMLHttpRequest which Ajax uses, but hopefully IE7 will succumb to pressure and actually do things right. To get an intelligent answer to this question, you would have to tell us what it is you want this application to do. If you're planning on using an Applet at all, then I can only assume that 1. You want a very full-featured UI and/or 2. You already know desktop Java If this is the case I would stick with an Applet (or better yet a Java Web Start application). If not, then you're looking for faster smoother version of a web-page. In this case you shouldn't be considering an Applet at all, IMHO, use AJAX. A third option you have not mentioned is JSF (or JSP, Servlets). With some AJAX enabled JSF/JSP libraries you can program in a relatively (though not completely) familiar Java environment and get some of the benefits of AJAX. It is a compromise between the two, but not the best of either. To me the bottom line is this. If you're planning on creating any level of complicated UI and you're not already an accomplished Javascript developer you are going to have some (potentially serious) headaches starting out. This is where Applet/Java Web Start come in. But, if that's okay to you and you like to learn/tinker, then go for AJAX. There's definite value in knowing at least some of this technology. If tinkering and learning from trial and error is not your cup of tea, you don't already have a significant grasp on Javascript and DOM, but you're sold on AJAX, you should look into a pre-built library/development platform like Backbase, Echo or Flex, IMHO. They make AJAX development not too difficult, plus you can learn from the code they spit out. Probably didn't answer any of the questions you're asking. But it is a rather open-ended question after all. And BTW, nearly all browsers used today have the Javascript engine required to run a full-featured AJAX client, so that's not the big concern it would have been a few years ago. To contrast that with Applet/Java Web Start, fewer machines come prepared to handle these without first downloading/installing some software (the JRE). Not all people (or businesses) are into doing that. > A third option you have not mentioned is JSF (or JSP, Servlets). With > some AJAX enabled JSF/JSP libraries you can program in a relatively > (though not completely) familiar Java environment and get some of the > benefits of AJAX. It is a compromise between the two, but not the best > of either. I don't understand this. You can implemnt Ajax with JSF, or JSP and Servlet, as you can implement it in ASP, PHP or other server-side environment. This is not a further option (instead is a suboption of the ajax choice). > > A third option you have not mentioned is JSF (or JSP, Servlets). With > > some AJAX enabled JSF/JSP libraries you can program in a relatively [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > in ASP, PHP or other server-side environment. This is not a further option > (instead is a suboption of the ajax choice). Third option from a development standpoint, not from an end-user standpoint. I think the OP was as concerned about development/maintainability of code as he was client usability. >From a 100% client perspective, I think AJAX is a good solution. 90% of browsers out there support it and have it enabled. Java applets cannot boast such numbers. However, AJAX code (IMHO) is a terrible pain in the yahoo, it's fragmented, not OO oriented (as much as the javascript do-dos will yell that it is), and so loosely typed that I wouldn't bring it home to meet my mother. But, if I can get Ajax functionality just by plopping and configuring a few JSF components into Netbeans or Sun Java Studio Creator, well then...that's a different story. > What are the pros of selecting AJAX over Applet/JApplet? (From both > development and deployment perspectives). > > Kindly asking for your thoughts... Applet gives you more control. AJAX will run on almost all client systems. I do not really see them as alternatives. You use AJAX if you need to interactivize some HTML stuff. You use Applet if you need to add some rich funtionality within what from a HTML point of view is a black box. Flash is more of an alternative to applet than AJAX. So AJAX plus applet or flash. Arne PS: In my opinion AJAX solutions is a complete mess from a software perspective and are only used to try and hide the fact that it is a web app, which I can not see a reason to. But that is a different topic. > I do not really see them as alternatives. > > You use AJAX if you need to interactivize some > HTML stuff. This is wrong. Web application are rich application...think to Google we apps. They are not just an interactivization of some HTML stuff. And Applet can get more control on the client, if signed as Dag Sunde says, but I see few point any where they overhelm the Javascript approach. > You use Applet if you need to add some rich funtionality > within what from a HTML point of view is a black box. > > Flash is more of an alternative to applet than AJAX. Flah, Applet, Javascrit, all of them can be used to implement web applications. >> I do not really see them as alternatives. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This is wrong. Web application are rich application...think to Google we > apps. They are not just an interactivization of some HTML stuff. In my book rich=interactivization so I do not see your point. > Flah, Applet, Javascrit, all of them can be used to implement web > applications. Thanks for telling us. Arne > What are the pros of selecting AJAX over Applet/JApplet? (From both > development and deployment perspectives). > > Kindly asking for your thoughts... I appreciate everyone's reponse(s). Just a small note to clarify my position... Beside not having to have a JRE (or Flash player) already loaded, I fail to see any advantage that an AJAX app offers over an Applet, Web Start, or Flash based apps. The software development process for such an app is quite a mess (I'm being nice here!). Moreover, network/bandwidth load, server load, limitations of HTML forms and UI elements, etc. etc. have turned me off completely. It's always healthy to learn what others think, and at this point, I would love nothing more than to get the input of the experts out there! >> What are the pros of selecting AJAX over Applet/JApplet? (From both >> development and deployment perspectives). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > others think, and at this point, I would love nothing more than to > get the input of the experts out there! For what its worth... I use both in the same web-apps. I have signed applet(s) that implements an excel-like data entry grid (whitch needs access to ave itself as csv or xml to the local file system, print, clipboard, et.c), and the rest of the page's interactive elements communicate with the server with AJAX. The page's JS can also communicate (set/get) values to/from the Applet. So there's not either/or... its both if neccessary, or simpler. SignatureDag. snip > Just a small note to clarify my position... Beside not having to have a > JRE (or Flash player) already loaded, I fail to see any advantage that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's always healthy to learn what others think, and at this point, I > would love nothing more than to get the input of the experts out there! From experience, we had far more issues with Applets because many users either did not have Java installed, had the wrong version of Java, their Admin disabled Java or their install was screwed up and Java was not quite working right, etc. You get the picture. With any modern browser, Firefox, Mozilla, IE, Opera, Safari...AJAX works out of the box. BTW, IE may not come with Java pre-installed..which leads to support calls when users get new computers. My $0.02. >... With any modern > browser, Firefox, Mozilla, IE, Opera, Safari...AJAX works out of the box. While most (not all) current browsers implement JS, the user (or SysAdmin) can also choose to disable it. It is not the '100% solution' that people are suggesting. Andrew T. > With any modern > browser, Firefox, Mozilla, IE, Opera, Safari...AJAX works out of the box. Depends. Read http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/03/ajax-dhtml-library-scorecard.html for the fine print about AJAX ! 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