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Java Forum / General / July 2006What age is too late to be looking for a job as a programmer if one has no industrial exprience
I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from Indian to China, etc. If I just want to utilize what I have already learned (comprehensively but trying to focus on one language for a few months), say even for a short period like 1-4 should I pursue that route regardless of my age in late 30s? or should I just use the edication and programming knowledge and SWEN knowledge (both academic) and put to use pursuing something else? >I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from > Indian to China, etc. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > knowledge and SWEN knowledge (both academic) and put to use pursuing > something else? Late 30's really isn't too old. Seriously if you are give up on yourself because you are around 40 that is sad. And what you are asking really is a personal decision. Some people have adventures in their lives, some people lie around, other people map out their lives to a T. If you are asking where the money is, or rehirability we might be able to help you better. (No guarantees) Plus - what country are you residing in now? Many things affect your hiring elidgibility than just the topics covered in school. -- LTP :) > >I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from > > Indian to China, etc. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Late 30's really isn't too old. Seriously if you are give up on yourself > because you are around 40 that is sad. Make me feel much better. I am 41, an immigrant from one of the most oppressed ethnic group in the most oppressed SE Asian country in the world. > And what you are asking really is a personal decision. Yeah but I don't want to be putting effort in in the wrong direction especially since I have other choices which are suitable to my taste and skills. > Some people have adventures in their lives, some people lie around, other > people map out their lives to a T. What is a T? BTW, some people happend to be at the right place, at the right time but I never was .. so far. Now, I feel that I am at the right place at the reight time but may not be at the right age. I have not done professional work for 8 years - except tutoring and then teaching briefly like 6 months about 2 years ago. I didn't teach programming btw. I had plenty of adventure, and it was not by choice. I already changed a career once (not by choice), actually more like quit since I haven't been established in a new one. I had neven been able to establish financially, and never even had some sort of financial stability and I need to get to that byt ene of my 40s. But for not, I just want to use the last/latest education I obtained. I don't want to settle for something just to make a living. At the same time, I don't want make a wrong turn and lose even like 6 mons sepnding time for a job position that wouldn't come to me *purely* because of my age. Instead, I can look for a slightly different position, for example, someone suggested me to try project administer or project coordinator type position in the industry I want to work in, namely pharmaceutical because of my bilogical and natural science background. (Note: Not project manager or business analyst position.) She is in construction management, a totally different environment wqhere she saw people coming with those job titles and so I am not even sure about the job titles she mentioned in pharamceutical industry. > If you are asking where the money is, or rehirability we might be able to > help you better. (No guarantees) Plus - what country are you residing in > now? Not about money. Not rehirability. I live in USA and recently became a permanent resident. If age is not an issue, I want to put use of my education *for sometime* as a programmer, i.e contract work or not. Then I'll go from there and see how I can establish myself in that industry. If age is not an issue to start as a programmer, I want to spend the next 2 months intensively reviewing the Core Java I learned at school + JDBC stuff + Servlets and JSP. Then start looking for a job, even if through agency and agreeing to contracts.Then I'll go from there and see how I can establish myself in that industry. > Many things affect your hiring elidgibility than just the topics covered in > school. I am planning to fix that but if age is an issue, I don't want to invest any more time on pursuing programmer position and rather do something slightly different which would still allow me programming software engineering knowledge. I know that companies are willing to take those in mid 25 with no expericnce who just got out of college with a computer science degree but I wonder would they be interseted in me who has some experience in another industry and another education with knowledge (resrach experience) that is useful in pharmaceutical industry? > -- > LTP > > :) > If age is not an issue to start as a programmer, I want to spend the > next 2 months intensively reviewing the Core Java I learned at school + > JDBC stuff + Servlets and JSP. Then start looking for a job, even if > through agency and agreeing to contracts.Then I'll go from there and > see how I can establish myself in that industry. Age WILL be an issue, make no mistake. That said, race, ethnicity, hairstyle, sex, body weight, and eye color are issues, too. This is not to say it is impossible to enter the field in your late 30's but you will get some rejections and pointed questions. When you do, and you will, find an employer, you will have the satisfaction of knowing they can see deeper that the others. Smaller companies are often more adventuresome. Even if you had entered the field at 21, many firms would question why you are 'just' a programmer and have not ascended to management. ... > Even if you had entered the field at 21, many firms would question why you > are 'just' a programmer and have not ascended to management. And I spent all that effort making sure I didn't become a manager, and getting out of project leader jobs whenever I found myself supervising more than about 3 others. How about "Because I'm a good programmer, software engineer, and computer architect, and have no particular talent for, or interest in, management."? Patricia >... >> Even if you had entered the field at 21, many firms would question why you [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Patricia Ditto. I have no interest in pushing paper around, writing staff performance reports or sucking up to superiors or trying and impress them with a golfing handicap. I am a person that gets the job done, not a pen-pusher! Being a manager doesn't mean anything anymore. On the whole, modern managers don't manage. Managers, by definition, should manage, i.e. take charge and make decisions - not spend hours in committee meetings only to make excuses. I have only ever met ONE manager in my entire working life, and it wasn't at a high-flying multi-national, it was at a charity. So there you go! > Being a manager doesn't mean anything anymore. > On the whole, modern managers don't manage. Managers, by definition, > should manage, i.e. take charge and make decisions - not spend hours in > committee meetings only to make excuses. I'm lucky; I am working with one of the best managers I've ever met. All the politics and infighting get filtered out and I get to make things work. Fortunately, I am fairly competent at making things work and nobody seems to want to rock the boat. >> Being a manager doesn't mean anything anymore. >> On the whole, modern managers don't manage. Managers, by definition, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Fortunately, I am fairly competent at making things work and nobody seems >to want to rock the boat. You're so lucky, I envy you. Make the most of it, in case he retires like my one did. > ... >> Even if you had entered the field at 21, many firms would question why [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Patricia Ditto... I found management no fun at all. I did it for a while. I ended up promoting my own boss and went back to developing. I don't mind mentoring and or helping managers with some task but really get my jollies from designing and implementing good code. Leon Lambert >> > If I just want to utilize what I have already learned (comprehensively >> > but trying to focus on one language for a few months), say even for a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > oppressed ethnic group in the most oppressed SE Asian country in the > world. Doesn't sound very fun. I'm sorry my friend. >> And what you are asking really is a personal decision. > > Yeah but I don't want to be putting effort in in the wrong direction > especially since I have other choices which are suitable to my taste > and skills. Well I haven't mastered the Job market here in the US so I don't know that I could offer you advice about the job market in Asia. >> Some people have adventures in their lives, some people lie around, other >> people map out their lives to a T. > > What is a T? It's an expression that means down the very last detail. I wish you the best of luck my friend. I am glad to hear that you are in the US now - I think you will find something. There are employers out there that are concerned that they are going to hire slackers/lazy individuals. Get some experience under your belt (here I go with my idioms again, my appologies), even write a few applications yourself if you have to. If you are good - there will be a job for you -- LTP :) > >> > If I just want to utilize what I have already learned (comprehensively > >> > but trying to focus on one language for a few months), say even for a [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I wish you the best of luck my friend. I am glad to hear that you are in > the US now - I think you will find something. Thanks. I am realizing that spending a lot of time to see what types of jobs are out there in this field is a must. > There are employers out there that are concerned that they are going to hire > slackers/lazy individuals. Get some experience under your belt (here I go > with my idioms again, my appologies), even write a few applications yourself > if you have to. I am trying to do that.. >If you are good - there will be a job for you I'll have to be good. No alternative left for me:)- hmm,,, inquiredMind, all the best! inquiredMind schreef: > I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from > Indian to China, etc. Yeah, but not only programming jobs, it's especially lower administrative jobs, what are the younger unexperienced middle educated going to have for a future :-(. But the thing is that if you let a programmer in a third world country do something over the internet for $5 an hour or something, one as an employer has to: *. Exactly describe what you want. *, Not expect any comments or questions like, I think this is not possible are you sure... The programmer over the internet will not have the strong inter human communication you will have on the job on spot. Hence, there always be possibilities for software engineers, but I think you should put your focus a bit more on defining the right software, software integration, and asking yourself and your customer the right questions, rather then put your focus on merely programming fixed predefined modules as fast and as cheap as possible. Anyway, I think lower administrators and production laborers are in a lot of more trouble then us software engineers. Yes I think this jobshifting is a problem in general for us in the 'rich and fortunate' west. Probably in a few decades the lower middle class will not be so rich and fortunate anymore. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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