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Java Forum / General / July 2006

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new to Java - best resource?

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Beth In Alaska - 30 Jun 2006 18:54 GMT
I'm a procedural programmer (vb mostly)  and I've gotten a fabulous
opportunity to score a donated copy of BEA Weblogic Platform for my
organziation (small non-profit).  I've got a great o'reilly safari
subscription and the java code is making sense (I'm starting with Heads Up
Java, which is fun and entertaining) and I love the oo concept.  What I am
confused about is the many types of programs that can be created :  whats a
servlet do as opposed to an EJB.   I understand JSP pages, thank goodness,
and what a jar is.  But there lots of words being thrown around that I am
unsure i understand - is there a beginners java glossary anywhere?

Thanks in advance,

Beth In Alaska
ducnbyu - 30 Jun 2006 19:12 GMT
> I'm a procedural programmer (vb mostly)  and I've gotten a fabulous
> opportunity to score a donated copy of BEA Weblogic Platform for my
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Beth In Alaska

Try this site: http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html
Eric - 30 Jun 2006 19:14 GMT
> I'm a procedural programmer (vb mostly)  and I've gotten a fabulous
> opportunity to score a donated copy of BEA Weblogic Platform for my
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Beth In Alaska
I too am just starting to take a look at java. so far, it seems that what
java is mostly usefull for is graphics (ie images, list boxes, combo boxes
etc) other than that most any scripting language, or even plain old C, will
do. Thats my first take on java. What else is it usefull for? (I'm asking
because I'm looking for ways to use it)
Eric
Chris Smith - 01 Jul 2006 00:23 GMT
> I too am just starting to take a look at java. so far, it seems that what
> java is mostly usefull for is graphics (ie images, list boxes, combo boxes
> etc) other than that most any scripting language, or even plain old C, will
> do. Thats my first take on java. What else is it usefull for? (I'm asking
> because I'm looking for ways to use it)

This is quite the opposite of what many others have found, which is that
Java is useful for server-side code, web applications, and the like...
but more problematic for GUI apps.  I suspect that your impressions say
as much about the kinds of code you need to develop as about Java's
strengths or weaknesses.

Signature

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer / Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

Eric - 01 Jul 2006 21:23 GMT
>> I too am just starting to take a look at java. so far, it seems that what
>> java is mostly usefull for is graphics (ie images, list boxes, combo
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> as much about the kinds of code you need to develop as about Java's
> strengths or weaknesses.

Can you give me some examples of the most common types of things java is
used for? The web applications i can think of some examples: dslreports
sped test, the nist clock page at time.gov (very cool). What about server
side code? can you give me some ideas/examples?
Thanks
Eric
Chris Smith - 01 Jul 2006 23:27 GMT
> Can you give me some examples of the most common types of things java is
> used for? The web applications i can think of some examples: dslreports
> sped test, the nist clock page at time.gov (very cool). What about server
> side code? can you give me some ideas/examples?

You've chosen unusual examples even for web applications.  More common
examples would be, for example, online stores and shopping carts,
customer relations management, inventory management, etc.  These sorts
of systems are FAR more common than the dslreports speed test.

Web applications are a kind of server-side code, but there is also RPC-
style service code, which runs behind the scenes and is not visible to
end-users.  This is where EJBs (ick!) enter in with Java, but they can
also be done with simple RMI or SOAP running as stand-alone applications
and/or within Tomcat.  I can't point out examples of this kind of code
that you can try out, since it wouldn't be this kind of code if you
could use it directly.  However, it is also commonly used within
business systems to coordinate various applications that deal with the
core data used by a company.

Of course, there will always be more exciting applications as well... I
was recruited for a while to work on an EJB-based application to help
law enforcement agencies identify patterns of drug trafficking based on
arrest data, for example.  The majority of code, though, is just the
plumbing that makes business processes work.

Signature

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer / Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

Oliver Wong - 03 Jul 2006 16:22 GMT
>>> I too am just starting to take a look at java. so far, it seems that
>>> what
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Can you give me some examples of the most common types of things java is
> used for?

   I'm not sure if this is the most common, but here are a short list of
some Java projects:

Eclipse (an IDE, which is a tool to help programmers write program)
NetBeans (another IDE)
Azureus (a bittorrent client, to help download files faster)
jEdit (a text editor, like notepad)
Hibernate (framework for database access)
JUnit (framework for testing software)
JasperReports (reporting engine, for making business reports, e.g. customer
invoices, list of sales, etc.)
Arianne RPG (an online game)
Art of Illusion (3D modelling software)
JBidwatcher (sniping tool for eBay and Yahoo)

   In other words Java is used for almost anything. The only thing I can
think of that Java isn't used for is writing device drivers for hardware. I
also heard that support for hard-realtime systems in Java is poor(which
would be used in controlling train-track switching, military laser-guided
missiles, etc.)

   - Oliver
Timo Stamm - 03 Jul 2006 21:26 GMT
Oliver Wong schrieb:
> I also heard that support for hard-realtime systems in Java is
> poor(which would be used in controlling train-track switching, military
> laser-guided missiles, etc.)

There is the Real-Time Specification for Java (rtsj.org). The unmanned
military jet "Barracuda" uses an implementation of this specification.

Here is a german news item about the jet with some links and pictures:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/75012

So it seems possible to use Java in real-time systems, but you certainly
need a special real-time JVM.

Timo
IchBin - 30 Jun 2006 21:09 GMT
> I'm a procedural programmer (vb mostly)  and I've gotten a fabulous
> opportunity to score a donated copy of BEA Weblogic Platform for my
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Beth In Alaska

You can try Sun's "The Really Big Index".
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reallybigindex.html

The "Java Language Specification, Third Edition" for reference.
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/j3TOC.html

"JavaTM 2 Platform Standard Edition 5.0 Overview for reference.
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs//guide/

JDK 5.0 Documentation for reference.
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs

"Java 2 Platform Standard Edition 5.0 API Specification" for reference.
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/

And along with all of that "The Java Developers Almanac 1.4" for
examples outside the tutorials.
http://javaalmanac.com

Thanks in Advance...
IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA              http://weconsultants.phpnet.us
__________________________________________________________________________

'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"'
-William E. Taylor,  Regular Guy (1952-)
Chris Smith - 01 Jul 2006 00:21 GMT
> I'm a procedural programmer (vb mostly)  and I've gotten a fabulous
> opportunity to score a donated copy of BEA Weblogic Platform for my
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> and what a jar is.  But there lots of words being thrown around that I am
> unsure i understand - is there a beginners java glossary anywhere?

To answer your specific questions:

A servlet is some code that gets run when a web server receives a
request.  It can access the properties of the HTTP request and do
something in response.  A JSP is similar, except that it's HTML at root,
with Java code only sprinkled in.  It's a good idea to combine the two:
have a servlet receive each request first, look it over, then forward it
to a JSP that contains the resulting HTML with a few dynamic things.

An EJB is completely different.  It allows you to put Java code on a
server where others can get to it, and then have client code (which
might include servlets, or normal applications, or whatever) call the
methods of that object.  EJBs can be used in very large scale
applications, but can also make things very complicated if they are used
in the wrong places.  (And some people would tell you there are no
"right" places for EJBs.)  EJBs also provide some other features like
object-relational mapping, declarative security (which is largely
useless in practice due to its limitations), and they prevent you from
doing some useful things like multithreading and security managers (the
marketing literature describes this as "EJBs handle multithreading and
security policies for you so you don't have to worry about it").

JAR files are essentially just zip files containing your Java code, and
an optional manifest that says things like what libraries the code
depends on and what class to start with.  Since every class you write is
compiled into a different class file, JAR files make things a lot more
convenient versus carrying around several hundred individual class
files.

Incidentally, not that you're all excited about this copy of BEA
WebLogic, I will slightly burst your bubble and warn you that it might
be the wrong thing for your organization.  WebLogic is a pretty big
piece of software, and you could easily sink months of effort into
getting it to do what you want, when those tasks could have been
accomplished in simpler ways.  It all depends on the requirements of the
situation... but "small" and "WebLogic" don't normally go together well.  
There are freely available products (like Tomcat) that provide the more
useful pieces of these APIs and frameworks without the complexity of
WebLogic.

Signature

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer / Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

Mark Space - 01 Jul 2006 07:29 GMT
> Incidentally, not that you're all excited about this copy of BEA
> WebLogic, I will slightly burst your bubble and warn you that it might
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> useful pieces of these APIs and frameworks without the complexity of
> WebLogic.

So is WebLogic basically a container then?  If so I have to agree with
Chris.  Get Tomcat, and forget the rest.  Tomcat is easy, free, and
apparently the reference platform for JSP.  You can't go wrong with
that.  (Think about Struts too though.)

And I have to add: JSP, EBJ, JAR... all really different animals there.
 *WHAT* are you trying to do with Java anyway?  Writing Java is a bit
like writing assembly language.  It's so big potentially, that you have
to manually narrow down your scope so that any given project is actually
manageable.

You can do anything with Java, and you can do anything with assembly
language, including make a huge mess and get yourself into a lot of hot
water.  Focus, focus, focus.


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