 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Java Forum / General / May 2006Something like Visual Assist for Eclipse
Howdy people, At work I am using Visual Studio 2005 with visual assist which can be downloaded from http://www.wholetomato.com Since I am learning Java when home and using Eclipse IDE I was hoping to find something like VA (Visual Assist) for Eclipse. It's not that I'm spoiled. I have started programming 13 years ago and had the chance to build big software projects using norton commander text editor and watcom compiler. So I know exactly how it feels like working without an IDE.. But now that I got used to VA at work, I can't imagine my life without it ;-) Sure that basic features in Visual Studio 2005 intellisense and in Eclipse IDE are suffice for making big software. But without VA it's simply not it. Nuff said. So if anyone knows of good inellisense for Eclipse, I'd love knowing about it. Thanks in advance, Shimon > Howdy people, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > So if anyone knows of good inellisense for Eclipse, I'd love knowing > about it. I've never used Visual Assist and I don't have the time to download it and learn it, just to reply to this post. But if it is doing code completions or suggesting ways of avoiding compiler warnings, Eclipse already does that without any plugins. For example, if you override a method in your Java program and have the compiler set to flag all potentional problems as warnings, you will get a warning if you haven't written an @Override annotation for the overridden method. The offending method will be underlined in yellow and the yellow "previous problem" and "next problem" arrows will take you to all such lines of code. If you are anywhere on the offending line of code, you can press CTRL-1 and Eclipse will offer a variety of suggestions. One suggestion will be that you add an @Override annotation and if you click on that suggestion, Eclipse will add the anotation for you. Why don't you give CTRL-1 a try for whatever lines of code you don't like and see if it does what Visual Assist does? I'm not sure what versions of Eclipse have the CTRL-1 functionality but it is certainly available as of 3.1.1, maybe considerably earlier. -- Rhino http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features.html The problem isn't about errors and warnings. VA enables you to go quickly through your code, it has automated text. It put {} braces automatically whenever needed. There are short cuts for many things. It usually gives you best candidates for what you've written. Imagine you're calling frequent methods or members, all you need is to type some (maybe even one) of their letters and it gives you the best possible choices to choose from. When doing software developing I find it very usefull to use descriptive method and member names, doesn't matter how long they are. Imagine you have function like: "weAreAboutToTrySomeOfVisualAssistFeatures()". Sometimes I don't even remember method names, but remember some of their name. That's all I need for VA to suggest it to me. You could write part of the name or use acronyms. Few key strokes and viola!! you got it :) check also http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features/acronym.html http://www.codeproject.com/showcase/VisualAssistX.asp is a great page describing some of most frequent uses of VA. VA is one of those things that hard to explain to other people. But once you start using it will be hard to stop. Shimon > http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features.html > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > VA is one of those things that hard to explain to other people. But > once you start using it will be hard to stop. Okay, thanks for filling me in. As I feared, my comments weren't very helpful :-) -- Rhino > http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features.html Almost everything I saw there, Eclipse has by default. > VA enables you to go > quickly through your code, Eclipse has this by default. > it has automated text. Don't know what this means. > It put {} braces > automatically whenever needed. Eclipse has this by default. > There are short cuts for many things. Eclipse has this by default. > It > usually gives you best candidates for what you've written. Eclipse has this by default. > Imagine > you're calling frequent methods or members, all you need is to type > some (maybe even one) of their letters and it gives you the best > possible choices to choose from. Eclipse has this by default. > When doing software developing I find it very usefull to use > descriptive method and member names, doesn't matter how long they are. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > need for VA to suggest it to me. You could write part of the name or > use acronyms. Few key strokes and viola!! you got it :) Okay, Eclipse doesn't let you type in the acronym, AFAIK. Instead, you're expected to type in the prefix. So "sb" would not give you a method called "setBounds", but "se" would. - Oliver Of course that eclipse has some of the things I've mentioned. I like Eclipse. But it is not advanced as VA is, IMHO. The fact is, for me at least, that I still feel "naked" when working without VA. I'm not a sales man, so it's hard for me to explain all the reasons why Eclipse fails where VA wins big time :-) The best thing I could say is to try VA for some projects in C++ and then get back to Eclipse. Only then, you will see exactly what I mean. VA gives me the ability to find everyhing I need in big projects in matter of seconds. I can click on a variable and see it's definition. If it's a const I can see it's value. I can see that information without going to definion. VA supplies some kind of a docking window.. Again, there are many features that I find it hard to point my fingure on them, but they do exist. And remember, I wouldn't be posting in this forum if I had found Eclipse features anywhere equal to VA's ;-) Regards, Shimon > Of course that eclipse has some of the things I've mentioned. I like > Eclipse. But it is not advanced as VA is, IMHO. The fact is, for me at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > VA for some projects in C++ and then get back to Eclipse. Only then, > you will see exactly what I mean. I don't program in C++, so I don't expect this to happen any time soon, unfortunately. > VA gives me the ability to find everyhing I need in big projects in > matter of seconds. I can click on a variable and see it's definition. CTRL-click to do that in Eclipse. > If it's a const I can see it's value. Not sure that this will always work in Java. Consider the following code: final int = Random.nextInt(); However, I could see a case made for compiler-time constant propagation analysis being built into JDT so that if the value of an expression was known at compile time, it could be displayed somewhere, somehow. > I can see that information > without going to definion. VA supplies some kind of a docking window.. Eclipse has docking windows too. They're called "views". > Again, there are many features that I find it hard to point my fingure > on them, but they do exist. > > And remember, I wouldn't be posting in this forum if I had found > Eclipse features anywhere equal to VA's ;-) Right, fair enough. I was just making sure this wasn't a case of the features already being present, but that you did not know about them. - Oliver > Of course that eclipse has some of the things I've mentioned. I like > Eclipse. But it is not advanced as VA is, IMHO. The fact is, for me at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > VA for some projects in C++ and then get back to Eclipse. Only then, > you will see exactly what I mean. You have to be more specific than that. > VA gives me the ability to find everyhing I need in big projects in > matter of seconds. So does Eclipse (at least for Java, I've had less successful results in C/C++). F3 for open declaration is handy. F4 for open hierarchy is good too. Ctrl-shift-G finds all references in the workspace. > I can click on a variable and see it's definition. > If it's a const I can see it's value. I can see that information > without going to definion. VA supplies some kind of a docking window.. Sounds exactly like the Declaration View in Eclipse. Try Windows -> Show View -> Declaration or <alt><shift>Q,D. Another handy view is the JavaDoc view. > Again, there are many features that I find it hard to point my fingure > on them, but they do exist. > > And remember, I wouldn't be posting in this forum if I had found > Eclipse features anywhere equal to VA's ;-) I suspect that it is more that you haven't found the features rather than they are not equal. I'm not saying that VA may have some better features, but if it does we would like to know what they are so they can be suggested to the Eclipse team which is very good about adding things.  SignatureDale King Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have mentioned, except ALT+SHIFT+Q, which is handy. I bet I still have plenty to learn about proper and effecient usage of Eclipse. I also think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say "ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse". Thank you all for the posts. Shimon > Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. > Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say > "ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse". I doubt that you get much traction, just saying go check this out. You would get much better reaction if you talked about specific features and how they fit into Eclipse and making sure that Eclipse doesn't already have something similar, which is why I told you to be more specific. SignatureDale King > > Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. > > Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > Dale King Dale, I would love doing so. But, as a new java developer I am not aware of which features are already available in Eclipse or external plugins. Other than that, I may not be aware of java development needs. Thus I don't think I'm the right man for the job. That's why I encourage you, the people who work with java much more than I do, maybe even you work with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully to imrpove the development in java for all of us. Best regards, Shimon >>> Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. >>> Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully > to imrpove the development in java for all of us. So full time java developers are supposed to go check out a C++ tool? One feature that is worthy of suggesting to Eclipse is the use of acronyms in code assist. It would be nice to use npe to look up NullPointerException or more importantly use iae to look up IllegalArgumentException which has many others with common prefix. Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class. It also provides a handy way to navigate around the class when the editor is maximized. Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA (You have to hit ctrl-space to see completions). SignatureDale King >>>> I also >>>> think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to >>>> links about VA and ask them to try it out. I'm sure they will say >>>> "ohh.. that's so cool! we must must add this feature to eclipse". [...] >>> You >>> would get much better reaction if you talked about specific features and >>> how they fit into Eclipse and making sure that Eclipse doesn't already >>> have something similar, which is why I told you to be more specific. [...] >> I encourage you, >> the people who work with java much more than I do, maybe even you work >> with java on daily basis, to check the links I've given and hopefully >> to imrpove the development in java for all of us. > > So full time java developers are supposed to go check out a C++ tool? And possibly learn C++ in the process, so that they can actually realize the significance of the features that VA is providing. Our only hope is to find someone who works with both C++ and Java, who has used both Eclipse and VA, and who can tell us what the differences are. (Actually, this sounds a lot like a description of the OP.) As much as I love Eclipse, and would love to see it have all the latest and greatest features, I'm not willing to spend a few years learning C++ to the same level to which I know Java, and then spend actual money to buy a license to use VA, and then play around with VA, all to submit a few RFEs to the Eclipse team. I suspect many other Eclipse users are in my position as well. - Oliver >>>>> I also >>>>> think that the best suggestion would be to reference Eclipse team to [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > all to submit a few RFEs to the Eclipse team. I suspect many other > Eclipse users are in my position as well. I didn't go quite that far. I only perused the feature list for VA. The only really valuable thing I saw there was the use of acronyms. I have submitted an RFE to Eclipse to add the feature. SignatureDale King > >>> Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. > >>> Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > So full time java developers are supposed to go check out a C++ tool? You are right. I've had a hidden assumption that some of developers here are familiar with C++ at have some experience with C++ IDE. I wouldn't expect full time java developers without prior experience in C++ to check VA features in C++ IDE. > One feature that is worthy of suggesting to Eclipse is the use of > acronyms in code assist. It would be nice to use npe to look up > NullPointerException or more importantly use iae to look up > IllegalArgumentException which has many others with common prefix. For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++ development at work: 1). listboxes - you don't have to press ctrl+space. you get the list automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms. Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time. 2). you can mark local symbols in bold. 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it.. pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make C-style commenting or uncommenting. 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via alt+shift+v the one you want to paste.. The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while I am typing. Let's say I have a class "Widget". In order to use it I need to type "wi" and enter. Of course it deepends on number of classes that are within current namespace/package. Remember, no ctrl+space invoved. It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public, protected methods and more.. > Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA > feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA > (You have to hit ctrl-space to see completions). Again, the question is ctrl-space or not ctrl-space.. I personally prefer the suggestion to be done automatically without pressing on special keys, like on ctrl-space. Shimon > 2). you can mark local symbols in bold. That's a good idea. VA makers are to be commended. For some reason IDE designers seem to think that we'll be better programmers if we have it pointed out to us that 23 is a constant, thus preventing confusion with variables like: ageInMonths But they never even /try/ to help us distinguish between the things that matter: local vs. non-local; constant vs. variable; static vs. non-static; and so on. So the screen ends up a bewildering Technicolor mess, but hardly includes any more useful information than would be conveyed by simple black and white. Why /do/ IDE designers copy each others' worst ideas ? Who came up with the idea of using italics for comments ? Pfah ! -- chris > Pfah ! #1. Eclipse is open source. #2. Sounds like you have an itch that needs scratching. >> 2). you can mark local symbols in bold. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Pfah ! Because most people want them. And all that is customizable in Eclipse. Go to Java->Editor->Syntax Coloring and you will see that you have a great deal of flexibility. Eclipse has some nice ones that I like, such as highlighting static field and method references differently and using strikethrough for deprecated items. SignatureDale King > Because most people want them. And all that is customizable in Eclipse. Go > to Java->Editor->Syntax Coloring and you will see that you have a great [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and method references differently and using strikethrough for deprecated > items. Is it possible to export/import the syntax highlighting configuration? if (yes) { Is there a site where I can download pre-configured syntax highlighting settings and import them into my local copy? } else { Let me know and I'll submit an RFE. } - Oliver >> Because most people want them. And all that is customizable in >> Eclipse. Go to Java->Editor->Syntax Coloring and you will see that you [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Let me know and I'll submit an RFE. > } I don't see any way to export it. SignatureDale King You can try this EnergyKey http://www30.webSamba.com/SmartStudio This may be help you. Now I always use EnergyKey, it helps me so much in my work. You can try this EnergyKey http://www30.webSamba.com/SmartStudio This may be help you. Now I always use EnergyKey, it helps me so much in my work. You can try this EnergyKey http://www30.webSamba.com/SmartStudio This may be help you. Now I always use EnergyKey, it helps me so much in my work. >>> Because most people want them. And all that is customizable in Eclipse. >>> Go to Java->Editor->Syntax Coloring and you will see that you have a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I don't see any way to export it. K, I did a quick search for "export syntax highlighting" and didn't see an existing RFE, so I added it: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=144463 - Oliver > Eclipse has some nice ones that I like, such as highlighting static > field and method references differently and using strikethrough for > deprecated items. Now that is good. In fact they've added some worthwhile options that I had missed. Pity the default is still to waste the power of highlighing, though. -- chris >>>>> Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. >>>>> Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > wouldn't expect full time java developers without prior experience in > C++ to check VA features in C++ IDE. I am at least one that is intimately familiar with C++ (although I am not actually a full-time Java developer). But I am not going to go download something searching for features. >> One feature that is worthy of suggesting to Eclipse is the use of >> acronyms in code assist. It would be nice to use npe to look up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > automatically. You can type in insensetive chars and with acronyms. > Using that I find name of classes, symbols or methods in no time. And as I said Eclipse has that, it's just not doing it automatically, you have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it would slow things down and keep getting in my way. > 2). you can mark local symbols in bold. See Java > Editor > Syntax Coloring where you can customize it how you want including specifying a style for local symbols. > 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it.. > pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make > C-style commenting or uncommenting. In Eclipse it is <ctrl>-/ to toggle // style comments and <ctrl>-<shift>-/ to add a block comment. To remove the block comment you have to use <ctrl>-<shift>-\. See the source menu. > 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via > alt+shift+v the one you want to paste.. I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it. It just annoys me. Another handy feature I recently discovered in Eclipse that has eliminated much of my use of cut and paste is <alt>-up arrow and <alt> down arrow. These move a line or lines up or down (indenting them correctly). If you add a <ctrl> with that then it duplicates the line(s). <ctrl>-d deletes the current line. > The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while > I am typing. > Let's say I have a class "Widget". In order to use it I need to type > "wi" and enter. Of course it depends on number of classes that are > within current namespace/package. Remember, no ctrl+space involved. I understand, but Eclipse has the feature it is just not as automatic. I believe that is because of usability and performance concerns. > It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public, > protected methods and more.. It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are not visible from the current context. >> Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA >> feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > prefer the suggestion to be done automatically without pressing on > special keys, like on ctrl-space. Note that Eclipse does support some auto activation of code assist for example when you hit '.'. You can add other characters if you want. I don't think you will convince Eclipse to make the code assist always automatic. I frankly would not want it to do so. If choosing between more intelligent suggestions and having it automatic, I chose more intelligence. While I haven't tried VA, Eclipse's code assist is pretty darn smart. Note that it has entries besides just identifiers. You can add templates and it gives you suggestions like add a missing abstract method inherited from an interface or abstract class. I really suggest that you look through the menus. There's lots of good stuff in the source menu. Also take a look at the key bindings in General > Keys in the preferences and you will find lots of handy things. SignatureDale King >> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++ >> development at work: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > have to request it. Frankly, I would not want it automatic as it would > slow things down and keep getting in my way. Well, if some people want it to be completely automatic, and others want it to be not automatic, then how about making it a feature that can be toggled on or off? Then again, I've see an article saying that one big problem with OSS is *too much* choice, in the sense that the developers don't actually bother making design decisions anymore, and just gives flags to let the user control everything. This might be a step in that direction. [...] >> 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it.. >> pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to add a block comment. To remove the block comment you have to use > <ctrl>-<shift>-\. See the source menu. Perhaps Eclipse could have a system to reconfigure the shortcut and key configurations. >> 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via >> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste.. > > I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it. > It just annoys me. The only app I've used that has this is Microsoft Office, and you can disable it. (I did). Again, perhaps Eclipse can offer this as a feature which can be turned off. [...] >> The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while >> I am typing. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I understand, but Eclipse has the feature it is just not as automatic. I > believe that is because of usability and performance concerns. If I typed "wi" and pressed enter, and I ended up with the text "Widget" instead of "wi\n", I'd be very annoyed. However, if I typed "wi", and then pressed ctrl-space to mean "I don't *REALLY* want 'wi'; rather, I want something which vaguely sounds like 'wi' and which makes sense in this context", *then* I'd fully expect "Widget" to appear as one of the suggestions. By default, I want Eclipse to do what I say. That is, if I typed in something, that's what I want typed in, and not something else. It's only when I do key-combinations which don't lead to the the emitting of text (e.g. ctrl-anything) that I'd want Eclipse to jump in and do all sorts of magic for me. >> It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public, >> protected methods and more.. > > It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code > Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are not > visible from the current context. I think Eclipse is foregoing the user-configurable filters and is instead using some sort of "AI" to determine what to show you. Based on my experience (I haven't looked at the source code), I'm guessing its suggestions are based on type checking (e.g. if you're typing in something which will be used as a parameter to a method which expects a string, the first few choices will be local variables and fields which are Strings, or methods which extend string), and most-recently-used. - Oliver >>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++ >>> development at work: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > just gives flags to let the user control everything. This might be a > step in that direction. My point is that it would take a lot of throughput to make it automatic without totally bogging things down. I would rather they concentrate on making it good rather than fast enough to be constantly getting in your face on every keystroke. > [...] >>> 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it.. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Perhaps Eclipse could have a system to reconfigure the shortcut and > key configurations. It does of course. And you can export and import the key configurations. >>> 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via >>> alt+shift+v the one you want to paste.. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > disable it. (I did). Again, perhaps Eclipse can offer this as a feature > which can be turned off. But it gets down to priorities. They don't have enough resources to implement everything. Of course you can influence those priorities by voting for bugs/enhancements. If enough people ask for it they will work on it. I don't even see an RFE for the feature so it must not be high on anyone's list. >>> It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public, >>> protected methods and more.. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > string, the first few choices will be local variables and fields which > are Strings, or methods which extend string), and most-recently-used. It has lots of intelligence to try to show you the most likely choices and yes it does do it based on the type needed in the expression. Not only parameters but when assigning to a variable it will present choices of the correct type first. This is where I care more about the code assist being smarter rather than more automatic. SignatureDale King > My point is that it would take a lot of throughput to make it automatic > without totally bogging things down. I would rather they concentrate on > making it good rather than fast enough to be constantly getting in your > face on every keystroke. Agreed. The IDE I use (not Java) has recently added "in-your-face" code completion, and it drives me nuts. It's possible to turn it off, but there's no real equivalent of control-space for on-demand completion. I'll have to add it myself, but so far I'm just sticking with the previous version (though not only because of code-completion). -- chris > >>>>> Dimitar, thanks for the reference. I will give IDEA a shot. > >>>>> Dale, I've been already familiar with most features that you have [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > > 2). you can mark local symbols in bold. > See Java > Editor > Syntax Coloring where you can customize it how you > want including specifying a style for local symbols. Looks promising :-) > > 3). you can select text.. if you press "/" it will comment it.. > > pressing again uncomments in.. you could also press on "*" to make [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via > > alt+shift+v the one you want to paste.. > I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it. > It just annoys me. What's annoying? you can continue using copy&cut&paste as you've used to. But in case you want you can have a listbox of your clipboard and past something you've copied into clipboard previously. if you don't use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't need to pay for the things you don't use". > Another handy feature I recently discovered in Eclipse that has > eliminated much of my use of cut and paste is <alt>-up arrow and <alt> > down arrow. These move a line or lines up or down (indenting them > correctly). If you add a <ctrl> with that then it duplicates the > line(s). <ctrl>-d deletes the current line. Good to know, thanks for the tip. > > The most vaulable feature for me is the auto-suggestions it does while > > I am typing. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I understand, but Eclipse has the feature it is just not as automatic. I > believe that is because of usability and performance concerns. It could be because of the reasons you've mentioned. That should be possible to overcome this issue, in case it's because of performance concerns. Regarding the usability, I don't think people find it un-usefull or unsable because most of chances are that they are not aware of such feature existence. > > It's possible to apply filtering on list-boxes.. ie, see only public, > > protected methods and more.. > It's possible to do some of that in Eclipse. See Java > Editor > Code > Assist. For instance by default it won't show you completions that are > not visible from the current context. I will check on that next time I run eclipse. Though, I doubt it's like VA. Since in eclipse, most chances, you statically set your settings. In VA you can modify your setting each time the list-box appears. But then again, I can live without it. > >> Another thing I just recently stumbled onto that seems similar to a VA > >> feature is pressing ctrl-O which pops up a quick overview of the class. > >> It also provides a handy way to navigate around the class when the > >> editor is maximized. You are right. I've tried it. It's very convinient. > >> Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that > >> is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I don't think you will convince Eclipse to make the code assist always > automatic. I frankly would not want it to do so. > If choosing between more intelligent suggestions and having it > automatic, I chose more intelligence. While I haven't tried VA, > Eclipse's code assist is pretty darn smart. Note that it has entries > besides just identifiers. You can add templates and it gives you > suggestions like add a missing abstract method inherited from an > interface or abstract class. I think there's some kind of misunderstanding. Why need to choose between intelligent suggestions and having it automatic? Each time VA suggest code completetition it shows it as a list-box and you can either choose the suggestion or you could continue typing and VA will choose it for you. Rememer the choise is only in a listbox, you don't have to accept it. You could press on escape to turn off listbox for current suggestion. I consider it to be 80-20 rule.. I'd rather have it automatic in 80% of my usage, and in the remaining 20% ,though I think it's much less than 20, I am willing to press on escape to turn it off. So there is no sacrifice of intelligense. You don't have to use automatic suggestions when you don't want to. Intelligense stays. I write a lot of code at work, and usually use descriptive long names when necessary. Using automatic code completetion saves me a lot of typing time. Remember, only when the suggestion is good for me, I press on enter key and accept it. > I really suggest that you look through the menus. There's lots of good > stuff in the source menu. Also take a look at the key bindings in > General > Keys in the preferences and you will find lots of handy things. I agree.. It has a lot of great functionallity. I've never claimed it's bad. I think there are helpfull features in eclipse that it's a shame they don't appear in visual studio. Anyway, back to work now. Regards, Shimon >>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++ >>> development at work: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't > need to pay for the things you don't use". That listbox is what is annoying. It pops up and gets in my way. >>>> Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that >>>> is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > only when the suggestion is good for me, I press on enter key and > accept it. But there is a choice between the creators of Eclipse exerting effort to make it fast enough to automatically pop up without being annoying or working on other features or improving what they have. I would rather they improve other things. And you seem to belittle the performance impact of it being automatic. I used to use Eclipse on a 200 MHz P2 laptop and let me tell you that performance was important (actually it was quite usable). > I agree.. It has a lot of great functionallity. I've never claimed it's > bad. I think there are helpfull features in eclipse that it's a shame > they don't appear in visual studio. It always annoys me when Visual Studio is held up as some great IDE. Most of the Java IDE's surpassed it ages ago. SignatureDale King > >>> For what it's worth I can list the VA features I use heavily in C++ > >>> development at work: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't > > need to pay for the things you don't use". > That listbox is what is annoying. It pops up and gets in my way. Maybe that's matter of taste. I find its advtanages more significant than the poping. > >>>> Looking through the VA features, I don't really see anything else that > >>>> is not already in Eclipse although not necessarily as automated as in VA [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > only when the suggestion is good for me, I press on enter key and > > accept it. > But there is a choice between the creators of Eclipse exerting effort to > make it fast enough to automatically pop up without being annoying or > working on other features or improving what they have. I would rather > they improve other things. The question wasn't which feature is more important. Of course it might be more important for eclipse creators and for the community to have other features made by eclipse programmers rather than having smart automatic code suggestions. But that does not mean that automatic code suggestions is not an important feature by its own. IMHO, it should be added to some eclipse "wish-list" and let the creators to choose feature priority or whatever the procedure is. > And you seem to belittle the performance impact of it being automatic. I > used to use Eclipse on a 200 MHz P2 laptop and let me tell you that > performance was important (actually it was quite usable). In such situation the feature could be disabled. > > I agree.. It has a lot of great functionallity. I've never claimed it's > > bad. I think there are helpfull features in eclipse that it's a shame > > they don't appear in visual studio. > It always annoys me when Visual Studio is held up as some great IDE. > Most of the Java IDE's surpassed it ages ago. Regardless of which IDE is better. The majority usually prefers less functionality with GUI that is simple to use rather than lots of functionality with GUI that is less straightforward to use. I don't try to claim here which IDE is superior or which is simpler. Just something to think about ;-) As final note, it's not fair to claim feature might be not usefull without really giving it a fair try. Not forget it has to do a lot with personal preferences of each programmer. The idea was to make working with eclipse better and more productive. It wasn't about vstudio vs eclipse. Shimon >> But there is a choice between the creators of Eclipse exerting effort to >> make it fast enough to automatically pop up without being annoying or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > added to some eclipse "wish-list" and let the creators to choose > feature priority or whatever the procedure is. And you are free to suggest it. Feel free to file an enhancement request at www.eclipse.org. All I am saying is don't hold your breath. SignatureDale King >> > 4). you can copy multiple texts into clipboard.. and select via >> > alt+shift+v the one you want to paste.. >> I've used several programs that had this and I never had any use for it. >> It just annoys me. > What's annoying? you can continue using copy&cut&paste as you've used > to. But in case you want you can have a listbox of your clipboard and > past something you've copied into clipboard previously. if you don't > use it, there's nothing to be annoyed about. as they say "you don't > need to pay for the things you don't use". In the implementations I've seen (Microsoft Office), they create a new pane on the right side of the screen to display all the contents of the clipboard, taking up valuable screen real estate. - Oliver > http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features.html > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > VA is one of those things that hard to explain to other people. But > once you start using it will be hard to stop. Sounds like any dedicated file-type mode in Emacs or Vim. For what it's worth, you might want to try IDEA as well. It's not free, but it's not very expensive either. Last time I've used VA was 2004 and I didn't notice any functionality that was missing in IDEA. I don't want to start a flame war, so please do not post in this thread if what you have to say is not relevant to the thread topic. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
|
Reply to this Message
|
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.