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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
Very interesting post Roedy. Just playing a bit of devils advocate to
promote discussion:
>>Roedy seems to be on thanksgiving spree ;) ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Mother T. strictly forbade anyone soliciting donations on her behalf.
> My generosity has never come near that level since.
There's some controversy regarding Mother Theresa, and what her order
spends the money it receives via donations on. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Theresa#Controversy and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionaries_of_Charity
> Of course there is the risk they
[our AI overlords]
> would have their own agenda, as
> humans would appear to them like doddering parents with Alzheimer's,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the young. They are Borg-like in their hive mentality needing constant
> inane chatter to maintain a sense of security.
Is this (the comparison to young people with cellphones) supposed to be
an argument FOR accepting our new AI overlords, or for fighting AGAINST
them? There's also a significant portion of the human population who feel
that computers lack certain qualities that are desirable in humans (e.g.
emotions). There are plenty of dramas in which the hero(ine) concludes "I
may have made a mistake, but at least I made it while in love." To them,
having the computers make us more like them would be a step backwards.
There are also arguments (even among technologists) against having a
mono-culture. With this massively networked cosmic consciousness, a virus
(in the form of a computer trojan, or a biological mental illness), could be
devastating.
I like the idea of being "connected" (as portrayed in, for example the
film "Ghost in the Shell" and its sequel), but I'd also like to maintain my
individuality.
[...]
> Java looked like the most promising hot bed. Because it was free and
> widely available on many platforms it was suitable for the third
> world which would be bringing a massive amount of new intelligence
> onboard with people willing to think out the box since they would for
> the most part be self-taught. It has a strong international flavour
> which suits my global co-operation bent.
After reading the Borg description above, the "Java is Everywhere" video
recently posted in c.l.j.advocacy takes on a new meaning.
[...]
> We only want to look at one problem at a time, and it
> is invariably the one that appeared today -- no matter how unimportant
> in the grand scheme of things it is. Note for example how FOX
> headlines on the Seattle news are all about graffiti. That is a great
> survival strategy for a hunter gatherer, not for a species teraforming
> the planet to a wasteland.
On the other hand, is the survival of our species, our planet, or this
sector of the galaxy even all that important, in the very grandest scheme of
things (i.e. on the order of the universe, or all of existence)? The only
thing I can think of which would make us unique in the universe is if by
some twist of fate, we happened to be the only sentient life form that
exists. And if that were the case, there wouldn't be anyone else around to
admire our uniqueness anyway.
> If you think I am talking science fiction about computers being
> smarter than humans, have a look at Ray Kurzweil, the inventor of OCR
> and the Kurzweil Synthesiser.
I find CAPTCHA tests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha) these days
are really getting difficult. It took me a while to realize what looked like
"BCREQ+" was actually "BURWT"; the test was rotating every second letter 90
degrees clockwise, though obviously it didn't reveal this anywhere, and it
was up to me to figure this out. Lucky the 'T' was in there, or else I might
never have managed to sign up my account. I wonder if the increasing
difficulty of CAPTCHA is an indication that our OCR AI is getting better and
better (or are web administrators just getting more and more paranoid?)
[...]
> Even back in the 70s I developed software smarter than humans at
> designing high voltage transmission lines. It will come in fits and
> starts. One of the big ones coming soon is driving vehicles faster and
> more safely than humans can.
There are a few tasks that computers are much "smarter" than humans at.
Calculations and memorizing stuff are some obvious ones. Detecting compile
errors within source code, solving sudokus, and perhaps passing CAPTCHA
tests are less obvious ones. However, there are some tasks for which it
seems humans are way better suited.
Natural language processing is the big one. It'll be a very long time
before you can tell a computer what you want in plain English and have it
understand what you mean. There's a contest called the "Loebner Prize" in
which people compete to write the most convincing chatter bot (i.e. an AI
program whose sole purpose is to provide an entertaining or stimulating
conversation with humans) held every year. You can download and run the
entries on your own computer to see that we've got a very, very, very long
way to go before we get anywhere near the way robots are portrayed in most
scifi movies (e.g. "The Terminator", "I, Robot", "2001: A space Odyssey",
etc.) http://www.loebner.net/Prizef/loebner-prize.html
Computer vision is another one. OCR is a subcategory of this, and we're
doing decently at it it seems (though the commercial OCR applications I've
used still make errors which I, as a human, would not have), but vision in
general is relatively poor. AI still has, for example, constructing a 3D
model of an object given a picture of it from various angles, or for
navigating a robot body around a physical maze without bumping into walls.
- Oliver
Roedy Green - 26 Apr 2006 23:01 GMT
> There's some controversy regarding Mother Theresa, and what her order
>spends the money it receives via donations on. See
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Theresa#Controversy and
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionaries_of_Charity
Yes, her reputation has tarnished over the years since 1985. There
was also the "miracle" that turned out to be simply Kodak's new low
light film. I used to think of Christians primarily as simpletons. Now
I see them primarily as conmen.
I used to send her about $40 each month, and got back a St. Francis Of
Assisi's prayer pounded out on the back of an envelope by some nun at
an old Underwood.
She also started interfering with birth control efforts.
It is easy to find fault. It is lot harder to contribute to the
extent she did. It is much harder still to inspire others to
contribute, and downright astounding when someone inspires others to
the extent she did.
Mother Theresa and The Billionaire
A billionaire paid a secret visit to Mother Theresa. He asked "Mother,
how much should I give?". She replied, "Give until it hurts.". He
replied, "But that would be too painful!" Mother T. said, "Bill, Pay
attention. I said "until"".

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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
Roedy Green - 26 Apr 2006 23:09 GMT
> Is this (the comparison to young people with cellphones) supposed to be
>an argument FOR accepting our new AI overlords, or for fighting AGAINST
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>may have made a mistake, but at least I made it while in love." To them,
>having the computers make us more like them would be a step backwards.
Of all the alien races imagined on TV, the ones I would most prefer to
share a planet with are the Vulcans, and it is not just the sexy
pointy ears.
Humans get in the most trouble when they fail to act in their own long
term self interest.
We have a lot of irrational behaviour hard wired in from our hunter
gatherer past, e.g. whenever their is food, consume it until it is
gone. Otherwise it will rot and you will starve. That used to be a
quite reasonable algorithm. Ditto -- go for max calories. Ditto sneak
up on neighbouring people and kill them and plunder their property.
Remain loyal to your leader no matter what a bastard, liar, thief he
is. Remain loyal to your family no matter what crimes they commit.
The world has changed so that these simple-minded strategies no longer
work effectively, yet we humans seem powerless to reprogram them.

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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
Roedy Green - 26 Apr 2006 23:23 GMT
>but I'd also like to maintain my
>individuality.
I have written a bit about those strange experiences that most people
are embarrassed to talk about where the boundary between you and the
rest of the universe dissolves. It is so utterly different from what
you would imagine from ordinary consciousness that the concept of
"preserving your individuality" is meaningless. The image conjured up
on TV is the mindless Borg. Data's enraptured experience with them is
perhaps the closest to experiencing actual CC.
see http://mindprod.com/religion/ccism.html
I think of someone like Voltaire, who stimulated minds all over Europe
by acting as a post office of the intelligensia. He would have
stultified just talking to the locals.
I would go nuts without the Internet. I look forward to ever higher
bandwidth communication to let me really get inside the heads of other
people, rather than just throwing rocks at them wrapped in rude
messages.
Probably the single greatest advantage of being gay is it lets you act
as spy, entering totally different life worlds undetected, invited
simply because you appeal sexually. You don't have to stick to your
own race, nationality, social class, economic stratum... You can go
anywhere. If you keep your mouth shut and just let people be
themselves, you see ever so much more diverse a world. You can become
almost invisible.

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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
Roedy Green - 26 Apr 2006 23:47 GMT
> On the other hand, is the survival of our species, our planet, or this
>sector of the galaxy even all that important, in the very grandest scheme of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>exists. And if that were the case, there wouldn't be anyone else around to
>admire our uniqueness anyway.
When we contact other intelligent life, that will be astounding. If it
turns out we are unique, that will be even more astounding. In
science we presume physics and chemistry work the same way everywhere
in the galaxy, but our Christian hubris still lingers in that we
imagine biology (increasingly viewed as a branch of chemistry) does
not. We imagine we are special, the apple of God's eye. We are the
only child. There is no evidence for our special status. We just want
it to be so, so we imagine it is.
Single-celled life appeared on earth very quickly after it cooled, but
took a very long time to evolve to multicellular. Single-celled life
appears to be like dandelions, almost automatically springing up,
nothing special at all, perhaps even seeded from space debris.
Further humans are a very recent species and give every sign they will
go extinct within a 1000 years. Intelligent technological species are
like century plants that only flower every 200 years or so for a very
short period. We wink on for a nanosecond of cosmic time and go
extinct. It is then highly unlikely for technological civilisation to
last long enough to develop the technology to visit another.
Intelligent non-technological species, like dolphins and elephants,
should be much more common. Whales have evolved brains far larger
than ours, and ability to compose and perform music beyond ours, and
have been doing it for 50 million years without destroying themselves.
We humans seem intent killing them off. Even if we don't succeed, we
might well take them with us when we destroy ourselves.
We evolved too quickly. We did not have time for our hard-wired
jungle programming to evolve to match our nuclear/bioterror
technological prowess. We have world leaders threatening nuclear war
motivated by the same hormones as a male ape beating his breast.
Bioprogramming designed to steal an extra chicken leg at dinner is
kicking in to deal with the end of oil. Our hard-wired algorithms are
far too simplistic for our new levels of power.
Mickey Mouse as the Sorceror's Apprentice is a great metaphor for
modern man's predicament.

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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.