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Java Forum / General / April 2006

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Female Java Programmers...

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Pavel - 24 Apr 2006 02:46 GMT
I'd love to see the ratio of male programmers to female programmers if
anyone has any info on this.

I just think life would be so much easier if there were more female Java
Programmers in the world.

End of rant.

Thanks,
Pavel
Stefan Ram - 24 Apr 2006 02:51 GMT
>I just think life would be so much easier if there were more
>female Java Programmers in the world.

 How would your life become more easy in this case?
Pavel - 24 Apr 2006 04:10 GMT
>> I just think life would be so much easier if there were more
>> female Java Programmers in the world.
>
>   How would your life become more easy in this case?

I suppose I should have realized that this could easily become a topic
of debate BEFORE I hit the send button. But, since I didn't, I will
attempt to take my keyboard out of my mouth, and qualify my vague
statement in hopes that a fiery rage does not ensue.

Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship with a
woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.  In 'my'
experience, there are certainly not enough women that seem to be
interested in computers and/or programming of any kind.

Although I know that this does not prohibit me from finding a decent,
wholesome woman... I do believe that it would be easier to come home and
be able to explain why my day was so cool because I hammered out 5000
lines of code with a new API.  It may also be easier to be able to come
home and maybe for just 10 minutes vent a little bit about why my JVM
destroyed my day.  Instead I get... "Babe, I don't know what the
<expletive deleted> you're talking about." , or "That's nice, Dear, but
I need new shoes." , or "Java?, Sorry we just ran out of coffee."

And perhaps "easier" is the wrong term for my initial rant, because this
 could definitely cause more problems than it's worth...

But I certainly think it would be "interesting" if there were more women
in the Computers & Programming section of Barnes & Noble.  Until then, I
suppose cheap pickup lines in clubs and bars will have to do. :)

Thank you,
Pavel
Stefan Ram - 24 Apr 2006 04:41 GMT
>Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship
>with a woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.  

 I believe that in order to /create/ a relationship, the woman
 should be interested in /you/ as a partner, first and
 foremost. Otherwise, it might not help that both of your share
 the same interest in Java.

>Instead I get... "Babe, I don't know what the <expletive
>deleted> you're talking about." , or "That's nice, Dear, but I
>need new shoes." , or "Java?, Sorry we just ran out of coffee."

 Given that there already is a relationship, I can understand
 your point: it can be more fun, if both also can talk about
 programming. Just take care of your self-esteem for the case
 that she might outperform you as a Java programmer.
Pavel - 24 Apr 2006 05:00 GMT
>> Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship
>> with a woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.  
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>   foremost. Otherwise, it might not help that both of your share
>   the same interest in Java.

I agree 100%.  I'm not looking to "instantiate" a relationship solely,
on Java alone.  That would be perverse. :)

>> Instead I get... "Babe, I don't know what the <expletive
>> deleted> you're talking about." , or "That's nice, Dear, but I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>   programming. Just take care of your self-esteem for the case
>   that she might outperform you as a Java programmer.

Hey, if she can write code better than I can, more power to her. I think
that would serve more as a turn-on than a turn-off.  And, yes... this is
actually more perverse. :)
Pep - 24 Apr 2006 10:16 GMT
>>> Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship
>>> with a woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> that would serve more as a turn-on than a turn-off.  And, yes... this is
> actually more perverse. :)

Then again you could take the approach that I did which was to show my wife
what my job was all about.  I won't say that she has become a programmer
but she certainly understands when I talk to her, or maybe I just wishfully
think the "uh huh's" and "mmm's" are agreement and understanding :)
bruces1@gmail.com - 24 Apr 2006 10:26 GMT
I am slowly but surely nerdifying my girlfriend.

When I met her she played "The Sims". I introduced her to Civilization
3. From there to an RPG / Adventure game. Next step.. Dungeons and
Dragons :-D
morning_path - 24 Apr 2006 23:39 GMT
So, you had an evil plan from the start, eh? How Wiley E Coyote of you.
Luc The Perverse - 25 Apr 2006 03:16 GMT
> So, you had an evil plan from the start, eh? How Wiley E Coyote of you.

Please try to learn to quote.   It makes it much easier for the readers.

--
LTP

:)
Ingo R. Homann - 25 Apr 2006 12:55 GMT
Hi,

> I am slowly but surely nerdifying my girlfriend.
> ...

My girlfriend is now able to code HTML and CSS.

I'm going to marry her soon. (Note that I asked her *before* she knew
HTML/CSS! ;-)

Ciao,
Ingo
derek@gkdkwe.com - 24 Apr 2006 14:32 GMT
>   I believe that in order to /create/ a relationship, the woman
>   should be interested in /you/ as a partner, first and
>   foremost. Otherwise, it might not help that both of your share
>   the same interest in Java.

And since we are on the subject of Java & relationships :)

*HOW to improve your sex-appeal with a good Java program* :

First things first : get in super.Shape. Next: all your URLs should
be created with protocol "female", same with URI schemes. As a
consequence, you'll notice that your GeneralPath will lead you into
Area(s) populated heavily with public class Women.

Secondly, as the Window of opportunity tends to be very narrow,
don't lose Focus! Make sure that a lot of instances of public class
Woman have FocusTraversalPolicy set on you.

Thirdly, implement as much Listeners as possible (public class
Women like being listened to). Then you have to establish a
Connection (some PreparedStatement might come in handy),
followed by Identity. Remember that Naming.lookup() is a
great ice breaker.

After a while, you have to broaden the IdentityScope. Visit some
KeyFactory and then exchange your public Keys. Don't think you're
home free, though. GC also comes with the package. You'll also
have to learn to be a good Observer. Your Observable will like
that very much.

Further more, the trick is to use a long, Long or Big* member
(field). Put it to work in an inner Socket, preferably doing it safely
(SSLSocket). Catch all the Exceptions in all the OutputStream(s)
unless you explicitly want child Processes. Moreover, don't rely on
your average BasicStroke, you have to come up with some versatile
method(s). Extending the built-in Socket(s) with something like
Suckit(s) might also impress some public class Woman, but some
don't like using MulticastSocket(s). Speaking of which, allways
check the .getPreferred*() beforehand. Otherwise you might have
to deal with nasty Throwables, like IllegalAccessError. Also take
into account that NoSuchMethodError means NoSuchMethodError
(same for NoSuchFieldError and the analogous Exceptions).  

Having dealt with all that, make sure that you close all the necessary
ports on your firewall, because InterruptedExceptions tend to be very
destructive (plus your Reference will become a SoftReference (i.e. your
RoundingMode will switch from UP to DOWN) for an indefinite period
of time).

Sooner or later you'll have to realize that the best you can do is to
make your instance of public class Woman final and static. It's not
unusual that in the process you also make it private, though protected
might also work in some cases. Of course, you'd have to say goodbye
to Swing for as long as you both shall live.
Gerbrand - 27 Apr 2006 10:33 GMT
derek@gkdkwe.com schreef:
>>   I believe that in order to /create/ a relationship, the woman
>>   should be interested in /you/ as a partner, first and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> *HOW to improve your sex-appeal with a good Java program* :

That's really funny :-).
Altough I not necessarely agree about the last alinea ;-).
Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Apr 2006 20:01 GMT
> Then again you could take the approach that I did which was to show
> my wife what my job was all about.  I won't say that she has become
> a programmer but she certainly understands when I talk to her, or
> maybe I just wishfully think the "uh huh's" and "mmm's" are
> agreement and understanding :)

Well, my husband and I both work in technical fields, but he does
assembler-level firmware, and I'm currently doing end user Java apps.

We each can understand enough of what the other's doing to sympathize,
but not to write each other's code.

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Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Apr 2006 19:58 GMT
>>Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship with
>>a woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.  
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>you're talking about." , or "That's nice, Dear, but I need new
>>shoes." , or "Java?, Sorry we just ran out of coffee."

Well, it helps to have *something* in common to start a conversation
that might eventually spawn something further.

I would also wonder about sharing all interests.  I waffle on this
one.  For example, I practice martial arts.  My husband doesn't.
Sometimes I wish he did, so that we could practice together (in part,
yes, so that when I want to talk about martial arts, he could have
even the faintest clue what I mean).  On the other hand, I've also
realized that I appreciate having something of my very own.  Most of
the physical things we do together (skiing, mountain biking, etc),
he's better at.  It's nice to have an activity where we're not
competing.

Yes, it would be nice if I were well-balanced enough not to see it as a
competition, but in the meantime ...

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Chris Uppal - 25 Apr 2006 08:49 GMT
> I would also wonder about sharing all interests.  I waffle on this
> one.  For example, I practice martial arts.  My husband doesn't.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> he's better at.  It's nice to have an activity where we're not
> competing.

It must also be a comfort, when the Love of your Life and Centre of your World
has beaten you at one of these activities, to reflect that your subtle skills
enable you to punch his spine out through the back of his neck...

   -- chris
Luc The Perverse - 25 Apr 2006 12:42 GMT
>> I would also wonder about sharing all interests.  I waffle on this
>> one.  For example, I practice martial arts.  My husband doesn't.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> skills
> enable you to punch his spine out through the back of his neck...

. . . . . . .

I find you a mite more competitive in your relationships than in mine

--
LTP

:)
Thomas Hawtin - 24 Apr 2006 13:12 GMT
>>> I just think life would be so much easier if there were more
>>> female Java Programmers in the world.
>>
>>   How would your life become more easy in this case?

> Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship with a
> woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.  In 'my'
> experience, there are certainly not enough women that seem to be
> interested in computers and/or programming of any kind.

I've found that with the two Java programmers I know, I have the least
stable friendships. And neither is particularly keen to talk about it.

In terms of numbers, one in thirteen seems to be the recurring
proportion for women electing to be involved with computers. Two out of
twenty six in my school Computer Studies class were female. Around the
same time a survey found only one in thirteen computers bought for kids
in the UK were for girls (okay, not necessarily elective). I seem to
remember the same fraction in a pre-.com survey of programmers. I
wouldn't be surprised to see the postings in this news group following
similar lines (although poster's gender is not necessarily obvious, and
possibly deliberately disguised).

OTOH, I think the variety of people becoming programmers has broadened.
Not that it was ever necessarily true that everyone involved was
interested in it. I guess conferences are viewed as male dominated
events, which I imagine puts most women off. The Association of C & C++
Users conference seems to get around one percent female attendees.

> But I certainly think it would be "interesting" if there were more women
> in the Computers & Programming section of Barnes & Noble.  Until then, I
> suppose cheap pickup lines in clubs and bars will have to do. :)

I shall see if my Mustang participate t-shirt wows the ladies. I suspect
I may be disappointed.

Tom Hawtin
Signature

Unemployed English Java programmer
http://jroller.com/page/tackline/

derek@gkdkwe.com - 24 Apr 2006 14:21 GMT
> But I certainly think it would be "interesting" if there were more women
> in the Computers & Programming section of Barnes & Noble.  Until then, I
> suppose cheap pickup lines in clubs and bars will have to do. :)

Well, if you are already at Barnes & Noble, just head for the psychology
and/or esoteric section. Plenty of women there, to try your lines on.  :)
Wes Williams - 24 Apr 2006 20:36 GMT
>> But I certainly think it would be "interesting" if there were more women
>> in the Computers & Programming section of Barnes & Noble.  Until then, I
>> suppose cheap pickup lines in clubs and bars will have to do. :)
>
> Well, if you are already at Barnes & Noble, just head for the psychology
> and/or esoteric section. Plenty of women there, to try your lines on.  :)

And avoid the ones in the self-help section.
Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Apr 2006 19:53 GMT
> I guess conferences are viewed as male dominated events, which I
> imagine puts most women off. The Association of C & C++ Users
> conference seems to get around one percent female attendees.

An anecdote: I'd been using linux, in fact running my own linux
server as well as desktop, for several years when my brother, who was
interested but hadn't yet installed linux, asked me to join him at the
local linux user's group meeting.

It's been a while, but as I recall there were over 100 people there,
and I was one of two women.

I'll be honest; while it wasn't uncomfortable, it was a bit ... odd,
and I didn't go to another LUG meeting.  Nothing bad happened to me or
anything ... and to be honest, I wasn't much into doing anything that
didn't involve EverQuest at the time.  So maybe I would have gone
again if I hadn't been otherwise preoccupied.

Anyway, if I'm one woman who is into linux, software engineering, and
other "geeky" things, but doesn't go to conferences and other
gatherings, I imagine there are many others, as well.

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marcwentink@hotmail.com - 24 Apr 2006 14:47 GMT
Pavel:

> Simply put, I feel it would be "easier" to have a relationship with a
> woman, if they shared "ALL" of the same interests as I do.

I would find this very annoying, I would like some time for myself, not
doing everything always together with a girl?
joseph_daniel_zukiger@yahoo.com - 25 Apr 2006 14:37 GMT
> >> I just think life would be so much easier if there were more
> >> female Java Programmers in the world.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> experience, there are certainly not enough women that seem to be
> interested in computers and/or programming of any kind.

I was once engaged to a woman who shared my interested in
microprocessor programming.

One of several problems we had was that she was happy with her 8085
protoboard, and thought the 8086 was a great processor.

I have since noticed that girl geeks and I tend to disagree on
precisely the points that would have made it the most difficult for me
to get along with them.

YMMV

> Although I know that this does not prohibit me from finding a decent,
> wholesome woman... I do believe that it would be easier to come home and
> be able to explain why my day was so cool because I hammered out 5000
> lines of code with a new API.

5000 in a day? Are you sure that was you and not Castor or JAXB?

I can't remember a time I've pumped out 500 lines of code in one day.
Well, I think I may have a couple of times particularly way late at
night and then I have to go back the next day and delete all but about
ten because the rest solved the wrong problem, or I found myself
spending the next day or so refactoring and bringing the line and level
of implicit coupling way down.

> It may also be easier to be able to come
> home and maybe for just 10 minutes vent a little bit about why my JVM
> destroyed my day.  Instead I get... "Babe, I don't know what the
> <expletive deleted> you're talking about." , or "That's nice, Dear, but
> I need new shoes." , or "Java?, Sorry we just ran out of coffee."

As a man who is married to an opposite, I must admit that it's
sometimes better that way.

She might, instead, ask why you insist on using *that* stupid vm. Or
not ask, just look at you with that worried look, as if she knows she
has to let you make your own mistakes.

> And perhaps "easier" is the wrong term for my initial rant, because this
>   could definitely cause more problems than it's worth...

Puzzles make life more interesting, too.

YMMV

> But I certainly think it would be "interesting" if there were more women
> in the Computers & Programming section of Barnes & Noble.  Until then, I
> suppose cheap pickup lines in clubs and bars will have to do. :)
>
> Thank you,
> Pavel
Monique Y. Mudama - 25 Apr 2006 16:27 GMT
>> Although I know that this does not prohibit me from finding a
>> decent, wholesome woman... I do believe that it would be easier to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> myself spending the next day or so refactoring and bringing the line
> and level of implicit coupling way down.

500 isn't horrifically unreasonable, if you're writing all fresh code
(as opposed to having to weave it into existing code) and have a
strong grasp of what needs to get done.

5000 does seem to be stretching it, unless you wrote a script to
autogenerate some repetitive code and count the results as code you
wrote =)

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Luc The Perverse - 25 Apr 2006 18:29 GMT
> 5000 does seem to be stretching it, unless you wrote a script to
> autogenerate some repetitive code and count the results as code you
> wrote =)

I wrote 5000 lines of code in a few seconds once that way.

Granted the entire premise of that "scripting" was flawed.

Kinda funny actually, I had a function being called about every 1 second
with an incrementing integer which was fed into a giant switch statement.
It should have been a thread with a few for loops.

--
LTP

:)
joseph_daniel_zukiger@yahoo.com - 26 Apr 2006 01:36 GMT
> >> Although I know that this does not prohibit me from finding a
> >> decent, wholesome woman... I do believe that it would be easier to
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> (as opposed to having to weave it into existing code) and have a
> strong grasp of what needs to get done.

500 lines in a day isn't horrifically unreasonable?

I'm having trouble imagining hand generating 500 lines of useable code
in a day, and not from a code generator (including GUI generators),
even if I am writing fresh code and have a strong grasp of what needs
to be done. Somehow, I have this idea that, if the problem is that well
defined, I'm going to already have a class or set of classes that does
the job, or a code generation tool of some sort.

Am I expecting too much of Java?

500 lines converting a carefully designed API spec to interfaces and
simple base classes, I suppose I could see, Java being wordy as it is.
(Not that Wordy is necessarily being a bad thing when wordiness can be
used to make dependencies and such explicit.) But I don't think I could
see that as anything close to a repeatable rate, even in that case,
unless the engineers who designed the API know Java so well that the
design clarifies all the implementation issues ahead of time.
Chris Uppal - 26 Apr 2006 10:41 GMT
> I'm having trouble imagining hand generating 500 lines of useable code
> in a day, and not from a code generator (including GUI generators),
> even if I am writing fresh code and have a strong grasp of what needs
> to be done. Somehow, I have this idea that, if the problem is that well
> defined, I'm going to already have a class or set of classes that does
> the job, or a code generation tool of some sort.

I largely agree.  There have been times when I've cranked out code that fast or
faster (I'm pretty quick when I'm on a roll), but normally I'd say that if you
are in that position then there's a good chance that you are missing a chance
to abstract and/or automate.  If the code doesn't need thinking about to
write[*], then that is at least a fairly strong hint that you might be better
off telling the computer to write it for you, or that there is some other level
of abstraction that you are missing.

([*]Which should be a fairly rare situation, for precisely the reason given
above.)

Of course, that does depend on the quality of the tools you have available for
automation and abstraction.  In inexpressive languages like C or Java, there
aren't many tools "in the box", so you are more likely to find yourself in a
position where it is both possible and appropriate to crank out code "quickly"
than if you were using, say, Lisp.

   -- chris
Martin Gregorie - 26 Apr 2006 16:37 GMT
> I largely agree.  There have been times when I've cranked out code that fast or
> faster (I'm pretty quick when I'm on a roll), but normally I'd say that if you
> are in that position then there's a good chance that you are missing a chance
> to abstract and/or automate.

There's another case, though its a bit rare. Some time back I was
working on a large online system where we had a number of modules that
pulled data out of the database and displayed it to answer queries. We
had a standard query response skeleton that just needed filling with
appropriate DB access statements and display formatting statements: the
rest of the system was menu-driven and had already collected the data
retrieval keys. This was entirely COBOL code using an IDMSX database in
case you're wondering.

Completed result display modules ran to about 300 lines of code not
counting the stuff that the IDMSX preprocessor injected. It was
generally possible to write, test and debug one of these in a day
without working overtime.

=======================

Another factoid that's always fascinated me is that, while programmers
vary widely in the number of lines of clean compiled and unit tested
code they can write a day, the number of lines any individual can
produce a day is almost independent of the programming language used.
IOW, most of the productivity gain going from assembler -> high level
language -> task specific languages (e.g., a 4GL, PowerBuilder, Perl,
awk, ...) is simply due to the fact that you can program a specific task
in fewer source lines.

This was discovered by the Lyons Organization, a British mid-20th
century Starbucks equivalent, who developed and used the worlds first
purpose designed business computer, the LEO series, in the early '50s.

Signature

martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

bugbear - 26 Apr 2006 10:56 GMT
> 500 lines in a day isn't horrifically unreasonable?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> defined, I'm going to already have a class or set of classes that does
> the job, or a code generation tool of some sort.

The only time I've generated (working...) code at that
rate was writing header parsers for image formats.

Somce (old) image formats are well documented, but quite
messy.

So you generate quite a lot of simple code,
that is't quite... simple enough to factor out.

This makes for a high rate of code-line generation.

In all other cases, yeah, 100-200 lines a day of debugged, working,
maintainable code is about the going rate.

This always surprises "bedroom geniuses"

    BugBear
Oliver Wong - 26 Apr 2006 14:51 GMT
>> >> Although I know that this does not prohibit me from finding a
>> >> decent, wholesome woman... I do believe that it would be easier to
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> 500 lines in a day isn't horrifically unreasonable?

   Lines is kind of an iffy metric anyway. Maybe the OP puts the curly
braces on seperate lines, and maybe you don't. JavaDocs add a lot of "easy
lines" too ("/**" counts as a line, right?).

   - Oliver
Wes Williams - 26 Apr 2006 14:58 GMT
>    Lines is kind of an iffy metric anyway. Maybe the OP puts the curly
> braces on seperate lines, and maybe you don't. JavaDocs add a lot of
> "easy lines" too ("/**" counts as a line, right?).
>
>    - Oliver

Indeed, perhaps they were also counting their, obviously failed, pickup
lines at the local pub in that metric as well?
Luc The Perverse - 24 Apr 2006 02:51 GMT
> I just think life would be so much easier if there were more female Java
> Programmers in the world.

Why?

I don't think my life has ever been complicated by a lack of women
programming in Java - but I could be mistaken.

--
LTP

:)
bruces1@gmail.com - 24 Apr 2006 03:49 GMT
Maybe he's going with..

More female Java programmers = more opportunities for heterosexual male
Java programmers to meet females in the workplace --> more
opportunities to hook up with like minded women without having to
actively seek them out??
Pavel - 24 Apr 2006 04:29 GMT
> Maybe he's going with..
>
> More female Java programmers = more opportunities for heterosexual male
> Java programmers to meet females in the workplace --> more
> opportunities to hook up with like minded women without having to
> actively seek them out??

I swear that I'm not lazy, but, yes, I believe that by pairing
heterosexual male Java Programmers with heterosexual female Java
Programmers, the workplace could potentially be less stressful... or ...
much more stressful.

In any event, it would be interesting.
Pep - 24 Apr 2006 10:13 GMT
>> Maybe he's going with..
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> In any event, it would be interesting.

And the view across the open plan office w/space would be greatly
improved :)
Luc The Perverse - 24 Apr 2006 12:36 GMT
>> Maybe he's going with..
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Programmers, the workplace could potentially be less stressful... or ...
> much more stressful.

Maybe the problem isn't that there aren't enough female java programmers.
Maybe male programmers just need to be more open minded to the idea of a gay
relationship

--
LTP

:)
Danno - 24 Apr 2006 05:17 GMT
Dependency Injection would definitely become an interesting topic.
Pavel - 24 Apr 2006 05:42 GMT
> Dependency Injection would definitely become an interesting topic.

Performance Tuning... yes.

Debugging ... NO.  :)
Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Apr 2006 19:45 GMT
>> I just think life would be so much easier if there were more female
>> Java Programmers in the world.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I don't think my life has ever been complicated by a lack of women
> programming in Java - but I could be mistaken.

Well, for one thing, the OP could be female ... and yes, being in a
field in which you're an extreme minority does complicate things,
although it's by no means impossible.

For another, there's a theory that people from different backgrounds
tend to approach problems differently and see different issues, so
lack of diversity certainly would be a problem.  (Perhaps one could
say that lack of diversity would simplify things in the short run, but
complicate them in the long run.)  This doesn't, of course, apply
exclusively to gender ...

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Danno - 24 Apr 2006 05:15 GMT
Judging by the pictures of attendees at Java One, I'd say its about
1000 men to 1 woman.  If the all of humanity ceases to exist with the
exception of everyone at the Moscone Center during Java One, I
sincerely hope that those 12 women there are flexible.
Pavel - 24 Apr 2006 05:41 GMT
> Judging by the pictures of attendees at Java One, I'd say its about
> 1000 men to 1 woman.  If the all of humanity ceases to exist with the
> exception of everyone at the Moscone Center during Java One, I
> sincerely hope that those 12 women there are flexible.

LMFAO :)

Thank you, I rest my case.
Roedy Green - 24 Apr 2006 06:38 GMT
>Judging by the pictures of attendees at Java One, I'd say its about
>1000 men to 1 woman.  If the all of humanity ceases to exist with the
>exception of everyone at the Moscone Center during Java One, I
>sincerely hope that those 12 women there are flexible.

For me, I would hope the males would be flexible. :-)
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.

bruces1@gmail.com - 24 Apr 2006 09:02 GMT
Hehe.. history shows that when women aren't available, "flexibility"
follows.
Up Yours - 24 Apr 2006 14:22 GMT
bruces1@gmail.com wrote in news:1145865722.437163.207830
@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> Hehe.. history shows that when women aren't available, "flexibility"
> follows.

In Roedy's case, he wouldn't care if women were available or not: he "plays
for the other team". http://mindprod.com/contact/idealpartner.html.

~~~~~~~~
Up Yours
Danno - 24 Apr 2006 15:40 GMT
phoenixinfoway@gmail.com - 26 Apr 2006 13:37 GMT
Hi Guys
This is Arun from PHOENIX IT CONSULTING, We are on a lookout for java
guys for Corporate Training. We assure you handsome perks on a per day
basis.If this proposal interests you please mail ur complete profile to
phoenixinfoway@gmail.com or call me at 098802-95986
Chris Uppal - 26 Apr 2006 14:17 GMT
> We assure you handsome perks on a per day basis.

This boneheaded post could almost be considered on-topic for the thread...

   -- chris
anal_aviator - 26 Apr 2006 22:53 GMT
> Hi Guys
> This is Arun from PHOENIX IT CONSULTING, We are on a lookout for java
> guys for Corporate Training. We assure you handsome perks on a per day
> basis.If this proposal interests you please mail ur complete profile to
> phoenixinfoway@gmail.com or call me at 098802-95986

We are talking about programmer sexual fantasies not job opportunities.
Also your advertisement breaks any number of equal opportunities laws, and as
for your English skills , well!!

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NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

Luc The Perverse - 24 Apr 2006 12:37 GMT
>>Judging by the pictures of attendees at Java One, I'd say its about
>>1000 men to 1 woman.  If the all of humanity ceases to exist with the
>>exception of everyone at the Moscone Center during Java One, I
>>sincerely hope that those 12 women there are flexible.
>
> For me, I would hope the males would be flexible. :-)

Oh crap - I thought I was being original

--
LTP

:)
bugbear - 24 Apr 2006 11:42 GMT
> Judging by the pictures of attendees at Java One, I'd say its about
> 1000 men to 1 woman.

It depends wether attendees of a Java conference
are a representative sample.

I doubt this rather strongly.

  BugBear
bugbear - 24 Apr 2006 10:43 GMT
> I'd love to see the ratio of male programmers to female programmers if
> anyone has any info on this.
>
> I just think life would be so much easier if there were more female Java
> Programmers in the world.

There are very few jobs that actually require a penis or vagina.
All other jobs should be open to everybody.

    ~Florynce Kennedy

    BugBear
Danno - 24 Apr 2006 15:37 GMT
That's a good quote
Gordon Beaton - 24 Apr 2006 16:17 GMT
> There are very few jobs that actually require a penis or vagina.
> All other jobs should be open to everybody.
>
>      ~Florynce Kennedy

Most jobs *are* open to everybody today AFAIK, although I expect it
wasn't the case when she said that,

However that doesn't change the fact that women and women tend to
choose different types of education and careers (for various complex
social reasons I won't even attempt to analyze), with the result that
men and women aren't equally represented among applicants for every
position in every field.

When I studied Computer Science around 1990, there were 3 women in my
graduating class of about 60, and among the younger classes I think
the most was about 7.

In my current department, 2 of the 5 java programmers are women while
none of the 6 C programmers are. (and who claimed in a recent thread
that employers only do one programming language?)

/gordon

Signature

[  do not email me copies of your followups  ]
g o r d o n + n e w s @  b a l d e r 1 3 . s e

Amfur Kilnem - 24 Apr 2006 17:00 GMT
>> I'd love to see the ratio of male programmers to female programmers if
>> anyone has any info on this.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>     ~Florynce Kennedy

Who is "?ôÉìåæ£Ü ?ÜææÜ¢å" ?

(Geek humor...)
Mitch - 24 Apr 2006 14:55 GMT
> I'd love to see the ratio of male programmers to female programmers if
> anyone has any info on this.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks,
> Pavel
My university department (Electrical, Electronic and Computing
Engineering) is one half of a building.  The other half is filled with
the Nursing / Health Science department.  They kindly put the nerds
along side all the compassionate females, which I thought was a nice touch.

Besides, I don't think I'd want my gf too interested in computers, you'd
come home only to talk over msn and when I've only written 10 lines of
code in an hour I wouldn't be able to claim that they were ten difficult
lines...


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