> I just got a short contract developing some JSP pages. But most everything I
> read on the net regarding JSP turns out to be years old - including in this
> newsgroup. Is JSP dying?

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>> I just got a short contract developing some JSP pages. But most
>> everything I
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> JSF is fairly popular these days, and 99% of JSF applications use JSP,
> for example.
Anecdotal comment about JSF:
My officemate - a seasoned and highly skilled Java web programmer - has been
struggling with JSF for months. JSF has him pulling out his hair in
frustration. He was all set to migrate his major project to JSF; but after
diving in for a while, he decided to put off the migration indefinitely. I
don't know the specifics - just reporting what I do know.
Roedy Green - 03 Apr 2006 18:18 GMT
>My officemate - a seasoned and highly skilled Java web programmer - has been
>struggling with JSF for months. JSF has him pulling out his hair in
>frustration. He was all set to migrate his major project to JSF; but after
>diving in for a while, he decided to put off the migration indefinitely. I
>don't know the specifics - just reporting what I do know.
I have not used it, but from what I have heard it is a higher level
way of solving problems with a high overhead. The way you get in
trouble with such a tool is by trying to use it as if it were a low
level tool. You have to do things its way rather than trying to
bludgeon it to do things your particular way.
It is a similar problem to C programmers coming to java and trying to
translate their code line for line into Java.

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Dag Sunde - 03 Apr 2006 23:12 GMT
>>My officemate - a seasoned and highly skilled Java web programmer - has
>>been
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> It is a similar problem to C programmers coming to java and trying to
> translate their code line for line into Java.
Sounds right...
One of my colleagues is a very good C# w/DotNetNuke and VB programmer
doing web-apps all the time, and he wouldn't stop his praise of JSF...
He was completely sold, being used to a portal-framework for .Net up
front...

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Dag.
Chris Smith - 03 Apr 2006 22:43 GMT
> Anecdotal comment about JSF:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> diving in for a while, he decided to put off the migration indefinitely. I
> don't know the specifics - just reporting what I do know.
I don't anything, of course, about that guy's situation, but I certainly
have my complaints about JSF. I just said it's popular. I think that
"popular" is quite an understatement, in fact, though the hype has
subsided in the last 9 months or so (whether from lower adoption or just
lesser novelty, I couldn't say). Certainly there are serious
abstraction problems in the JSF framework, which the 1.2 release will go
a long way toward fixing but won't really get there. Nevertheless, I
can't point to another web app framework that's not without its share of
problems.
It's also likely that Roedy's suggestion is accurate. JSF is a rather
fundamentally different way of doing web applications, and if your
colleague is accustomed to doing things differently, he may find himself
at odds philosophically, rather than merely using a poor technology. To
someone in the midst of things, it's often hard to tell the difference.

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