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Java Forum / General / March 2006

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Eclipse bug?

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Twisted - 03 Mar 2006 13:23 GMT
Eclipse bug? Using most recent version (as of a couple weeks ago,
anyway), if it sits idle for a day or two in the taskbar, it stops
responding -- or at least it is really sluggish if you try to use it
again, and not just for a short time, but until you quit and restart it.
Thomas Weidenfeller - 03 Mar 2006 13:32 GMT
> Eclipse bug? Using most recent version (as of a couple weeks ago,
> anyway), if it sits idle for a day or two in the taskbar, it stops
> responding -- or at least it is really sluggish if you try to use it
> again, and not just for a short time, but until you quit and restart it.

Report it to the eclipse people.

/Thomas
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Twisted - 03 Mar 2006 16:12 GMT
Report it where? There's no bug report/feedback thingie inside the app
itself, so I figured a place full of Java programmers was the next best
bet -- here.
Thomas Kellerer - 03 Mar 2006 16:19 GMT
Twisted wrote on 03.03.2006 17:12:
> Report it where?

I'm not an Eclipse user, but it seems to me the link to the Bug tracker is
pretty easy to find on their homepage...

Thomas
James McGill - 03 Mar 2006 17:04 GMT
> Report it where?

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/
James Westby - 03 Mar 2006 16:42 GMT
> Eclipse bug? Using most recent version (as of a couple weeks ago,
> anyway), if it sits idle for a day or two in the taskbar, it stops
> responding -- or at least it is really sluggish if you try to use it
> again, and not just for a short time, but until you quit and restart it.

It's probably getting paged out of main memory. I've found that when
I've been using it, but then launch another memory heavy process for a
while then go back to it it is sluggish until all it's pages are main
memory resident again. This may be what is happening to you.

James
Twisted - 03 Mar 2006 17:17 GMT
This explains Firefox being slow or even hanging for a while after
being idle for a while, but Firefox begins to run at normal speed again
after a few moments. Eclipse requires restart. Why? Java process size
has bloated up to over 100M when this has happened. Why? Leak? Heap
fragmentation? Does hotspot VM defragment as it gcs?
Thomas Kellerer - 03 Mar 2006 17:24 GMT
James Westby wrote on 03.03.2006 17:42:
>> Eclipse bug? Using most recent version (as of a couple weeks ago,
>> anyway), if it sits idle for a day or two in the taskbar, it stops
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> while then go back to it it is sluggish until all it's pages are main
> memory resident again. This may be what is happening to you.

I thought Eclipse had fixed the problem with the paging. For JDK 1.5 there is a
(new) system property that you can set in order to prevent a minimized
application to be paged out (-Dsun.awt.keepWorkingSetOnMinimize=true)

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=85072

Thomas
Twisted - 03 Mar 2006 17:40 GMT
> -Dsun.awt.keepWorkingSetOnMinimize=true

Not much help if all you have to do is tab away, without minimizing,
the app for this to happen. :)

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's more than that -- it bloats up and starts
to spend all the time GC'ing. Then again, so does anything else written
in Java, even if it's been idle all that time.
Scott Ellsworth - 03 Mar 2006 22:35 GMT
> > -Dsun.awt.keepWorkingSetOnMinimize=true
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> to spend all the time GC'ing. Then again, so does anything else written
> in Java, even if it's been idle all that time.

Only if it is really poorly written.  Frankly, gc overhead should be
pretty minimal under most circumstances for most programs.  I do find
that programs which have never had a memory profile run on them often do
create a bunch of bloat and cruft, but one or two good profiles can
often fix that problem.

There are exceptions - you might generate a bunch of garbage during a
processing run, that needs cleanup once you finish, but these are
typically known times of high effort, and the flurry of gc at the end is
just part of that high effort process.

Scott

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Scott Ellsworth
scott@alodar.nospam.com
Java and database consulting for the life sciences

Scott Ellsworth - 03 Mar 2006 22:43 GMT
> > Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's more than that -- it bloats up and starts
> > to spend all the time GC'ing. Then again, so does anything else written
> > in Java, even if it's been idle all that time.
>
> Only if it is really poorly written.  Frankly, gc overhead should be
> pretty minimal under most circumstances for most programs.

After I hit send, I realized that this was a bit incendiary.  I was
responding to 'so does anything written in Java', rather than to Eclipse
in specific.

All programs can have bugs, and for Java programs, a common one is
letting your heap grow for no reason.  The presence of such a bug does
not mean that a program is really poorly written, unless it has a _lot_
of such bugs in it, or they cannot fix the problem due to architectural
reasons.  Report the bug to the Eclipse folks, and we will see how they
respond.

I do think that programs should be careful not to fill heap, and if they
do, it is likely a bug.  That said, the test of whether a program is
poorly written, to me, lies in how well the architecture discourages
bugs, and how easy it makes to find and fix them.

Scott

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Scott Ellsworth
scott@alodar.nospam.com
Java and database consulting for the life sciences

Twisted - 04 Mar 2006 03:50 GMT
"Memory profiling"?
Scott Ellsworth - 06 Mar 2006 20:56 GMT
> "Memory profiling"?

A memory profiling tool essentially tells you what objects you are
creating, how big they are, who is holding a reference to them, and how
long they live.  Most time profilers also include a memory profiling
module that can give you this information.

Running one of these can be an education - you find out whether GC is a
big part of your execution profile, and if it is, what objects are
choking it.  In general, creating objects is pretty cheap, and not worth
optimizing away, and this will be even more true for Java 6.  That said,
there are usage patterns that result in huge amounts of junk lying about.

There are a lot of good tools to do a memory profile.  I, personally,
prefer JProfiler by e-j technologies, but YourKit also gets a lot of
good press.  Both work well with IDEA, and I believe they both work well
with Eclipse, so they would also be good tools to use to profile the
IDEs themselves.

MacOS X developers also have access to the very neat Shark and
ObjectAlloc tools.  I find JProfiler superior to the general tools for
most uses, but there are times where I want to know why we are getting
hit with a strange cost - is the system swapping, or calling into the
kernel.  For those cases, Shark is the bee's knees.

Scott

Signature

Scott Ellsworth
scott@alodar.nospam.com
Java and database consulting for the life sciences

Twisted - 22 Mar 2006 10:24 GMT
What's a good choice that meets the following criteria:
* Works with Eclipse
* Easy to set up and use with Eclipse
* Win32 is a supported platform
* Free (as in beer; preferably as in speech too)
* Maximum functionality, subject to the above constraints

--
I am the terror that flaps in the net!
I am the power surge that fricassees your firewall!
I am TWISTED!
Roedy Green - 23 Mar 2006 00:14 GMT
>What's a good choice that meets the following criteria:
>* Works with Eclipse
>* Easy to set up and use with Eclipse
>* Win32 is a supported platform
>* Free (as in beer; preferably as in speech too)
>* Maximum functionality, subject to the above constraints

but what does it do?   For plug-in sources, see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/elipse.html
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Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.

Twisted - 23 Mar 2006 12:24 GMT
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/elipse.html

404.

--
I am the terror that flaps in the net!
I am the leaky faucet in the kitchen of crime!
I am TWISTED!
Dag Sunde - 23 Mar 2006 12:27 GMT
>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/elipse.html
>
> 404.

Missing 'c'...
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/eclipse.html

Signature

Dag.

Roedy Green - 23 Mar 2006 18:45 GMT
>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/elipse.html
>
>404.

http://mindprod.com/jgloss/eclipse.html
Signature

Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.

James Westby - 03 Mar 2006 19:58 GMT
> James Westby wrote on 03.03.2006 17:42:
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Thomas

But i want this to happen, I would rather have the slight delay when it
does, than be unable to have two processes with large memory
requirements running at the same time.

The property you mention and the bug you reference are platform specific
anyway. Maybe the are applicable to the OP, so he should look in to them.

James


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