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ed collins - 08 Jul 2003 15:01 GMT

I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?

Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.

ed.

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Paul Guermonprez - 08 Jul 2003 16:04 GMT

i use an editor (vim, but xemacs works too, or any source code editor)
+ ant (ant.apache.org) for building/cvs/...
+ cvs (better, but will take some time to get used to)

free, multiplatform,
IMHO the best way to learn (no flame).

paul.

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
>
> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
>
> ed.

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Steve - 08 Jul 2003 16:35 GMT

I'd totaly agree - use a basic text editor for learning Java. If you
want nice colours for keywords etc then use something like EditPlus or
TextPad - search the web for free/shareware tools.

A good IDE will do a lot of the work for you, which totaly defeats the
object [no pun intended] of learning the language. I also do not think
you will see any productivity gain if you are working on small
projects and building simple classes to learn features of the
langauge. I don't think you even need source code control, but if you
do I'd go for CVS. Any may be useful if you build a complex project
with a lot of classes, but I don't recal a need for it when I was at
University.

Learn the language first, then when you want to build a production
system look for the most suitable IDE - you'll want different IDEs for
different environments (e.g. J2ME for a cell phone has completely
different needs to a J2EE application, and a J2SE Swing app will be
different again).

I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.

Steve

> i use an editor (vim, but xemacs works too, or any source code editor)
>+ ant (ant.apache.org) for building/cvs/...
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>
>> ed.

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~

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Dale King - 09 Jul 2003 00:26 GMT

> I'd totaly agree - use a basic text editor for learning Java. If you
> want nice colours for keywords etc then use something like EditPlus or
> TextPad - search the web for free/shareware tools.

I totally disagree. And what does the poor newbie do when his program
doesn't work since he doesn't have a debugger? Imagine the nightmare trying
to figure out how to correctly compile a larger program spanning multiple
packages from the command line.

> A good IDE will do a lot of the work for you, which totaly defeats the
> object [no pun intended] of learning the language.

Since when is the work of building the code, part of the language? That is
just learning a tool that is not part of the language.

> I also do not think
> you will see any productivity gain if you are working on small
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with a lot of classes, but I don't recal a need for it when I was at
> University.

That is why most IDE's are not a good fit for learning the language. There
is an IDE specifically designed for learning OOP and the language without
requiring you to learn arcane command line tools. It also has a good
debugger and facilities to help visualize the program.

That IDE is BlueJ (www.bluej.org).

> Learn the language first, then when you want to build a production
> system look for the most suitable IDE - you'll want different IDEs for
> different environments (e.g. J2ME for a cell phone has completely
> different needs to a J2EE application, and a J2SE Swing app will be
> different again).

I agree. Learn the language first. That is why I recommend BlueJ. Your
approach requires learning a tool which is essentially just a really bad
IDE.

> I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
> Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.

It's your loss.

--
Dale King

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Steve - 10 Jul 2003 10:55 GMT

>> A good IDE will do a lot of the work for you, which totaly defeats the
>> object [no pun intended] of learning the language.
>
>Since when is the work of building the code, part of the language? That is
>just learning a tool that is not part of the language.

Not true, if you mean learning the syntax, maybe, but to learn a
language you need to understand the interdependence between classes,
and in any sensible application that means multiple files, you need to
undertand how Javac picks up classes, I'd say that was part of the
language.

>> I also do not think
>> you will see any productivity gain if you are working on small
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>That IDE is BlueJ (www.bluej.org).

I'd agree, it looks nice.

>> Learn the language first, then when you want to build a production
>> system look for the most suitable IDE - you'll want different IDEs for
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>It's your loss.

Not really. Unless BlueJ supports Perl, Unix scripts, C++, Java, C,
Ada, Pascal, Assembler, C#, text (OK, it probably does this one), XML,
HTML, JSP, ASP and SQL (T/SQL and PL/SQL) then I think I'll stick with
my text editor thanks. In the time it takes to learn the latest and
greatest IDE for each of these I think I will have died of boredom and
not written any code. I use IDEs when I work full time day in day out
in one langauge, but when I switch between langauges day to day I
don't have time.

By the way, I recently saw a presentation by Erich Gamma on the
Eclipse project. That is impresive, so I'm prepared to go back on
everything I just said when I get a chance to look at it.

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Jon Skeet - 10 Jul 2003 14:11 GMT

> >> I develop Java and C++ enterprise applications for a living and I use
> >> Notepad more than I use JBuilder and the like.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> in one langauge, but when I switch between langauges day to day I
> don't have time.

Even if you're not going to use an IDE which directly knows how to
compile/debug each of those languages, almost *any* editor is going to
be better than Notepad. For instance, just using Eclipse and setting
everything up as text files will give you version histories, CVS
access, multiple buffers, etc - far better than Notepad.

There is certainly a place for a powerful text editor in every
developer's toolbox - but Notepad is *not* a powerful text editor.

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Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com>
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Tukla Ratte - 10 Jul 2003 19:59 GMT

< snip >

> Not really. Unless BlueJ supports Perl, Unix scripts, C++, Java, C,
> Ada, Pascal, Assembler, C#, text (OK, it probably does this one), XML,
> HTML, JSP, ASP and SQL (T/SQL and PL/SQL) then I think I'll stick with
> my text editor thanks. In the time it takes to learn the latest and
> greatest IDE for each of these I think I will have died of boredom and
> not written any code.

The original poster *was* asking about IDEs specifically for Java.
Obviously, no single IDE can handle all of those (although the modular
IDEs like Emacs and Eclipse could, with relatively little effort).

BTW, I sure hope you aren't having to use all those languages in a
single project. <bg>

< snip >

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Steve - 11 Jul 2003 10:20 GMT

>< snip >
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>< snip >

well, you snipped a bit too soon, my response re: multiple languages
was in reponse to the comment "your loss" refering to not using IDEs.
I agree it is getting OT, but it is a valid point in the discussion of
IDEs I think.

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kevinn@backer.com - 08 Jul 2003 16:08 GMT

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning
> Java and OOP. What is the most popular IDE to create
> Java programs?

I highly recommend JCreator.

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Drew Volpe - 08 Jul 2003 17:07 GMT

Last time we met, ed collins <emacduffie@comcast.net> had said:

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?

Eclipse is probably the most popular, as it's free and has a lot
nice features.

My personal favorite is IntelliJ's IDEA. It has a very well
thought out UI. It has a lot of great features like automatic
refactoring, imports optimization, popup javadocs, etc. but
it's all put together so that it never gets in your way and is
quick to use. One thing I love is you can right click any
class or method and either go to the declaration of that class/method
or find all usages of that class/method throughout your code.

dv

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Ken - 09 Jul 2003 23:42 GMT

I've been using Jedit for quite a while and I'm pretty happy with it.
Its free and open-source.

http://www.jedit.org

Ken

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
>
> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
>
> ed.

Reply to this Message

Red - 14 Jul 2003 18:33 GMT

Hey Ed,

I know you've gotten a million responses already. I will make quick,
easy suggestions. JBuilder is probably the most user friendly and
easiest editor to use when you are beginning. When you start using
application servers this changes the equation a bit, as most have
their recommended, branded editors (ex. WebSphere's maekover of
Eclipse).

Personally, as an advanced developer, I use ANT exclusively and find
this to be the best tool. I guess my advice to you is that start off
using an editor (maybe JBuilder), but if you serious about a future in
Java development get used to a tool like ANT. The visual editors
aren't the best tools to use for serious development. But for
beginning, the code wizards the editors have will probably be
something of use to you.

Of course, some may prefer to use an editor, but I have found that you
really don't need one. A good text editor and ANT are all that is
really needed. And to be totally honest with you, ANT is very easy to
learn, it CAN be much more complex, but to learn it's basics is very
easy.

Good Luck,
Reid

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
>
> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
>
> ed.

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javadesigner - 14 Jul 2003 20:59 GMT

Ok. Here's how it breaks down:

1) Unix/Linux: emacs or xemacs
2) Macintosh OSX: BBEdit (or emacs)
3) Windows: NoteTab, SlickEdit (or emacs).

Both BBEdit and SlickEdit have emacs key emulation are are
both pretty good (although BBEdit is a bit easier to setup).

Ignore the other "IDE's". They suck.

Best regards,

--j

[Remove spam and fix yahoo email address to email me]

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Jon A. Cruz - 15 Jul 2003 05:34 GMT

> Both BBEdit and SlickEdit have emacs key emulation are are
> both pretty good (although BBEdit is a bit easier to setup).

Problem is, emacs keybindings are probably emacs' leasy usefull feature.

elips emulation is really needed to have decent emacs emulation.

'though both of those are good editors.

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Lance Parkington - 15 Jul 2003 08:49 GMT

I would recommend VisualAge for Java which produces pure Java code.
The IDE has very powerful capability to connect GUIs to code. The full
professional version comes with CD in the book "Effective VisualAge
for Java Version 3: Includes coverage of versions 3.02 and 3.5 Scott
Stanchfield, Isabelle Mauny " available from amazon etc

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
>
> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
>
> ed.

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Tim Tyler - 15 Jul 2003 12:57 GMT

: I would recommend VisualAge for Java which produces pure Java code.
: The IDE has very powerful capability to connect GUIs to code. The full
: professional version comes with CD in the book "Effective VisualAge
: for Java Version 3: Includes coverage of versions 3.02 and 3.5 Scott
: Stanchfield, Isabelle Mauny " available from amazon etc

Aren't IBM replacing this with Eclipse?

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__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org

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David Segall - 16 Jul 2003 16:56 GMT

>: I would recommend VisualAge for Java which produces pure Java code.
>: The IDE has very powerful capability to connect GUIs to code. The full
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Aren't IBM replacing this with Eclipse?

No. They have already superseded it with Websphere Studio Application
Developer which is based on Visual Age for Java. VAJ was based on
Eclipse but adds, among other things, a visual GUI interface
developer.

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Tim Tyler - 17 Jul 2003 08:35 GMT

:>: I would recommend VisualAge for Java which produces pure Java code.

[...]

:>Aren't IBM replacing this with Eclipse?

: No. They have already superseded it with Websphere Studio Application
: Developer which is based on Visual Age for Java.

Websphere Studio Application Developer is based on Eclipse.

It is a commercal version of Eclipse. It is unlikely to supercede
Eclipse because is isn't in the same market in terms of price.

: VAJ was based on Eclipse but adds, among other things, a visual GUI
: interface developer.

Eclipse came out years after VisualAge for Java did.

Eclipse is written in Java - VisualAge for Java was written in Smalltalk.

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__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org

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Yar Hwee Boon - 17 Jul 2003 09:30 GMT

> >: I would recommend VisualAge for Java which produces pure Java code.
> >: The IDE has very powerful capability to connect GUIs to code. The full
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Eclipse but adds, among other things, a visual GUI interface
> developer.

Nope, Tim is closer. WSAD replaces VAJ and WSAD is based on Eclipse.

Hwee Boon

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Steve Horsley - 17 Jul 2003 09:32 GMT

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
>
> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.
>
> ed.

If you have not used an IDE before, I suggest BlueJ from
http://www.bluej.org which is explicitly designed for teaching java and
also for teaching OO concepts. It is simple enough that you don't have to
spend hours finding your way round all the menus, but it does everything a
beginner needs. And its object workbench is probably unique, and gives a
very good feeling for OO.

Steve

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d2003xx - 26 Jul 2003 13:31 GMT

> I'm a college student and am in the process of learning Java and OOP. What
> is the most popular IDE to create Java programs?
>
> Any and all replies would certainly be appreciated.

vim + cmd

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