Java Forum / General / February 2006
I hope that I'm mistaken ...
slippymississippi@yahoo.com - 07 Feb 2006 13:18 GMT I went to take the SCJP test Friday. I sat down, entered my test number, and immediately was redirected to a survey with a fifteen minute clock. Annoying, maybe, but innocuous enough. I finished up the survey and hit submit, preparing to see the exam start. Sure enough, the exam clock began ticking in the right hand corner of the screen, but instead of seeing an exam question, I was presented with several pages of information requesting that I allow Sun to distribute my email address to other parties.
WTH! I have asked other people who took the exam if they experienced the same problem, and nobody remembers noticing the exam clock ticking away in the corner of the screen. I distinctly remember the incredible chagrin when I looked up and saw a 1:59:59 ticking away while Sun asked me if they could open up the spam pipeline to my email address, because I'm one of those test takers who use every available second to double check all my answers.
Please, someone, tell me that I'm mistaken.
Rhino - 07 Feb 2006 14:09 GMT > I went to take the SCJP test Friday. I sat down, entered my test > number, and immediately was redirected to a survey with a fifteen [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Please, someone, tell me that I'm mistaken. I have no idea if they actually took exam time while asking you for permission to send you marketing propaganda - I've never taken any of their certification exams - but, if they did, I agree that is a horrible misuse of exam time.
On the other hand, it wouldn't have taken me very long at all to say "NO" to their requests if it had been me encountering those requests; I certainly wouldn't have spent several minutes reading the pages carefully and considering their requests. I would have figured out what these requests were within 10 seconds, immediately looked for the "no" checkbox, clicked on the next page button, and moved on to the test. In other words, if you wasted more than a few seconds on this during your exam period, you were partially responsible for wasting your own time.
I think you're doing the right thing by verifying that exam time was used by this shameless marketing on Sun's part and you're doing it at the right time: AFTER the exam is over. I hope that if people confirm that they had the same experience you take the bull by the horns and send an indignant letter or email to Sun and encourage everyone else to do the same. Complaining doesn't always work but it certainly does _sometimes_.
Several years back, the biggest cable company in this area tried some "negative option marketing": in other words, they sent you a notice with your bill saying that they were upgrading you to a new, more expensive cable package automatically unless you contacted them to say that you weren't interested. Believe me, that caused a _heck_ of a stir and the public outcry made the news with several stories over several days. The cable company quickly backed away from that policy and the outcry got the attention of every other company in the area: I haven't heard of anyone trying that little dodge since.
If there's an outcry over test time being used to plug their products, Sun is likely to stop pretty quickly. On the other hand, if people just shrug and express indifference, you might find that Sun takes that as permission to do it again and consume even more test time on future occasions.
--
Your post has reminded me of a joke about tests so I'm going to tell it, just for the heck of it.
A guy goes into a final exam in an examination room with dozens of fellow students. They all know that the exam has 100 true or false questions on it. He turns the exam over, goes visibly pale, and immediately turns the exam face down again and soon starts twiddling his thumbs. The guy supervising the exam sees all this happen and immediately understands what is going on: the student hadn't studied for the exam and, as soon as he saw the questions, knew he didn't have a chance so he started twiddling just to kill time until he could leave.
Twenty minutes later, the supervisor looks over and sees the student turn the paper over and start looking at the questions again. He sees a despondent look cross the student's face, then a "Eureka!" look as the student reaches into his pocket and pulls out a coin. The student immediately begins flipping the coin and marking true or false to each question depending on how the coin lands. The supervisor smirks to himself at the obvious desperation strategy being used by the student. The student soon finishes the exam, puts his coin back in his pocket and turns the paper face down, this time with a smile on his face.
Eventually, the supervisor looks back at the student again and sees him flipping the coin again but this time the supervisor is baffled. Finally, the exam period ends and the student turns in his paper. The supervisor, overwhelmed by curiousity asks for an explanation: "I understand why you took out the coin the first time: you were desperate to find answers to all of the questions. But why did you take it out a second time?"
The student replies, "Well, I had to check my answers didn't I?"
-- Rhino
slippymississippi@yahoo.com - 07 Feb 2006 14:58 GMT > On the other hand, it wouldn't have taken me very long at all to say "NO" to > their requests if it had been me encountering those requests; I certainly > wouldn't have spent several minutes reading the pages carefully and > considering their requests. I would have figured out what these requests > were within 10 seconds, immediately looked for the "no" checkbox, clicked on > the next page button, and moved on to the test. I agree, but I was so shocked that I had to read the information just to verify what I was seeing: one section was a request for Sun to send information on other educational products to my email address (clicked Yes and submit), another section was a request for Sun to distribute my email address to other parties so that they could send me information on other educational products (in the absence of a "HELL NO" button, I simply clicked no and submit).
I was fairly outraged, but other people I know who have taken the exam did not notice it. I think it was probably because they just clicked "Yes" and "Submit" to the questions without reading. What's really outrageous is that at the point where you're beginning the exam, Sun has already asked you those exact same questions when you registered and paid for the exam.
Chris Uppal - 07 Feb 2006 15:22 GMT > I think it was probably because they just clicked > "Yes" and "Submit" to the questions without reading. Well, you know the advice for anyone taking an exam: ** always read the question **
But yes, I agree that this is exceptionally slimy. Taking advantage of people's nerves and anxiety to gain permissions that they would normally not even consider giving is reaching towards the bottom of the barrel.
Do Sun actually administer this process ? I know they are not perfect, but this seems to go beyond that and into deliberate scumbaggery.
-- chris
slippymississippi@yahoo.com - 07 Feb 2006 15:54 GMT The test is administered by a Prometric subcontractor, but it's a Sun application. I finally found another person in my office who noticed that the exam clock was ticking when these questions popped up.
I would have expected better of Sun. I'm curious to see if the same pages pop up during the SCWCD and SCBCD exam.
Oliver Wong - 07 Feb 2006 16:50 GMT > The test is administered by a Prometric subcontractor, but it's a Sun > application. I finally found another person in my office who noticed > that the exam clock was ticking when these questions popped up. > > I would have expected better of Sun. I'm curious to see if the same > pages pop up during the SCWCD and SCBCD exam. It'd be amusing (for me, but maybe not for the people taking the exam) if clicking "yes" was required to actually run the software which administrates the exam (thus implying that clicking "no" results in an instant grade of zero.)
- Oliver
Thomas Hawtin - 07 Feb 2006 17:13 GMT > The test is administered by a Prometric subcontractor, but it's a Sun > application. I finally found another person in my office who noticed > that the exam clock was ticking when these questions popped up. *me too*
I was actually doing the SCJP 5.0 beta which had a five hour time limit, which wasn't so bad. Or at least wouldn't have been if I didn't start wanting to use the little boys room from just after the start.
Top tip: Don't choose an assessment centre with test rooms directly beneath light industrial machinery.
Tom Hawtin
 Signature Unemployed English Java programmer http://jroller.com/page/tackline/
Rhino - 07 Feb 2006 18:39 GMT >> On the other hand, it wouldn't have taken me very long at all to say "NO" >> to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > did not notice it. I think it was probably because they just clicked > "Yes" and "Submit" to the questions without reading. Perhaps I'm just getting too cynical but I suspect that is exactly what they had in mind all along....
>What's really > outrageous is that at the point where you're beginning the exam, Sun > has already asked you those exact same questions when you registered > and paid for the exam. Now THAT makes the whole thing truly offensive! If you'd already answered those questions, you should not have been asked them all again and the time certainly should have been taken out of the time you had to do the exam. That's just WRONG.
[Aside: I wonder what happens if the answers you gave during registration differ from the answers you gave during the test? I'll bet they only pay attention to the answers that are more favourable for them, i.e. the ones that give you permission to spam them, even if your later response was "no thanks". But, like I said, maybe I'm too cynical.]
I hope you can generate a groundswell of negative reactions and tell off Sun and the testing company very firmly. I'd certainly be inclined to do that if they'd pulled a stunt like that during a test I took.
-- Rhino
Oliver Wong - 07 Feb 2006 19:28 GMT > [Aside: I wonder what happens if the answers you gave during registration > differ from the answers you gave during the test? I'll bet they only pay > attention to the answers that are more favourable for them, i.e. the ones > that give you permission to spam them, even if your later response was "no > thanks". But, like I said, maybe I'm too cynical.] As a former telemarketer, I have no doubt that they would use the "most favourable" answer. We had a cyclic queue. I'd take someone from the front of the queue, ask them if they were interested in the service, and if they said "no", this would be interpreted as "no, for now" and they would be put at the end of the queue, to be queried again some time in the future. Given the size of the queue, how fast we would get through calls, and how many people were working with me, it would usually be on the order of a couple of years before we called them again, though.
The client had to specifically request to be removed from our calling list for us to do so (and apparently we were required by law to remove them from the queue if they requested), but unless they explicitly said this, we would just add them to the back of the queue and ask them again some time later.
- Oliver
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