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Java Forum / General / January 2006Free speech.
I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). I am not certain if it was a complaint from a prankster or from the administrators of this newsgroup or one of these newsgroups. If it was from the administrators then I have question for you: Where can I find the policy for this newsgroup. I believe it is in violation with the law in many countries ! Bye, Skybuck. > I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my > idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Where can I find the policy for this newsgroup. I believe it is in violation > with the law in many countries ! Which newsgroup? You've posted to three different newsgroups. comp.lang.c doesn't have a formal charter (it predates newsgroup charters), but there is a general consensus about what's topical. I don't recall seeing you post anything here that would be considered topical. I'm not aware of any laws that require your ISP to enable you to post whatever you like to a Usenet newsgroup. (Many ISPs don't even provide Usenet access.) But regardless of any legal issues, simple politeness suggests that cross-posting off-topic material is a bad idea.  SignatureKeith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst> We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this. >> I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my >> idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). It's nice to know that some ISPs take at least that much notice of complaints. >> I am not certain if it was a complaint from a prankster or from the >> administrators of this newsgroup or one of these newsgroups. >> >> If it was from the administrators then I have question for you: News groups don't have administrators. These groups don't have moderators either. >> Where can I find the policy for this newsgroup. I believe it is in violation >> with the law in many countries ! Which countries have laws saying that people are not allowed to complain to your ISP or that your ISP is not allowed to complain to you? > Which newsgroup? You've posted to three different newsgroups. > > comp.lang.c doesn't have a formal charter (it predates newsgroup > charters), but there is a general consensus about what's topical. I > don't recall seeing you post anything here that would be considered > topical. It also has a welcome message giving guidance on topicality which gets posted every so often. Links to various topicality guidlines for comp.lang.c can be found here http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Reading_And_Posting_To_comp.lang.c Anyway, if you want to invoke freedom of speech for your write to post here, then everyone else can invoke it for their write to complain about you posting off topic stuff here. > I'm not aware of any laws that require your ISP to enable you to post > whatever you like to a Usenet newsgroup. (Many ISPs don't even > provide Usenet access.) But regardless of any legal issues, simple > politeness suggests that cross-posting off-topic material is a bad > idea. Also the ISP probably has an AUP (Acceptable Usage Policy) which may well include restrictions on posting. Since there have been complaints posted to at least 1 of these groups about Skybuck Flying posting off topic rubbish with ridiculous cross posting, and s/he has continued anyway, the ISP will easily be able to see that his/her behaviour is not considered reasonable. The simple solution for Skybuck Flying to to post this stuff somewhere it won't be considered off topic. Then no one would complain. So you are free to "say" whatever you want as long as you do it in the right place. SignatureFlash Gordon Living in interesting times. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it. >I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my >idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). >Where can I find the policy for this newsgroup. I believe it is in violation >with the law in many countries ! Is your local newspaper -required- to print any and all articles you submit to them? Is The Voice of America -required- to broadcast your 2 hour discussion of why Brittany Spears is the best artist, "like, ever!"? Is CNN -required- to broadcast your home video of your dog chasing a stick? Is your city -required- to allow you to put on a "You can't trust {specific <ethnicity|religion|Santa Claus>}" parade? "Free speech" means *at most* that the government cannot stop you from expressing your views in such ways as will not cause undue disturbances (and there are "prior restraint" exceptions in -every- country that I have examined.) "Free speech" does NOT mean that anyone is obliged to provide you with a forum to express those views, particularily if doing so would cost them money. And "Free speech" does not mean that people cannot complain about your expression of your views, does not mean that a business or individual cannot require you leave for having expressed those views, and does not mean that [in serious cases] that you cannot be arrested for having expressed those views. In my country, "free speech" is a legal concept that applies to "public places" -- and Usenet is NOT a "public place" (ask yourself who owns the systems that Usenet groups travel over and get stored in.) The closest Usenet gets to "free speech" is to say that "If one of the Big 8 newsgroups doesn't want your opinion, then go start an alt.* newsgroup and see if anyone bothers to carry it." And if even an alt.* newsgroup doesn't fly then you could try for a free.* newsgroup -- I hear that the total audience for those has risen to 19 people now. "Free speech" doesn't mean you can force anyone to -listen- to you. If you go around trying to cite "free speech" laws as overriding Usenet policies and customs, then you WILL lose the debate, because those laws are *always* full of limitations. Oh and you should examine your contract with your ISP before you go much further: your contract with them very likely gives them the right to drop your service for pretty much any reason they want, -including- (and possibly specifically written into the contract) violating Usenet norms. SignatureIs there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already of old time, which was before us. -- Ecclesiastes Nobody owns the entire internet and nobody owns a specific usenet newsgroup. It's as simple as that. The people running these news servers are allowed to connect to each other etc. As a matter of fact anybody can run a news server. If you do not like what I have to say I suggest you simply place me in your killfile ;) and make a nice splonk sound with it. Internet and usenet is as public as it can be. If you like to play mister dictator I have some nice advice for you: 1. Move to china and embrace the great firewall. 2. Start your own private internet and private usenet. I rest my case so to speak ;) Bye, Skybuck. > >I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my > >idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > (and possibly specifically written into the contract) violating Usenet > norms. > Nobody owns the entire internet and nobody owns a specific usenet newsgroup. <snip> No one has claimed to, and people still have have the option of reporting you to your ISP when you deliberately post off topic rubbish since you have been informed here that is is unacceptable and also now by your ISP. So if you want to avoid future complaints just don't post off topic rubbish and don't engage in stupid cross posting. Oh, and I realise that your top posting was a deliberate attempt to annoy. SignatureFlash Gordon Living in interesting times. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it. >Nobody owns the entire internet and nobody owns a specific usenet newsgroup. Correct. >It's as simple as that. >The people running these news servers are allowed to connect to each other >etc. Generally true, but that is subject to local law. >As a matter of fact anybody can run a news server. You can -run- a news server, but [except by specific contract] you cannot force anyone to accept any particular message from that news server. Owning the equipment that gives you the capacity to do something does not mean that you have a right in law to do it. Try telephoning the office of the queen and making some threatening noises, and then see whether you can get the courts to agree that you have a free speech right to have done so. After all, you are "allowed to connect to each other" by the telephone that you own and run, right? >Internet and usenet is as public as it can be. You invoked law in this matter, expressing a view that newsgroup policies against saying whatever you wanted probably violated the laws of many countries. Unless you choose to modify that prior statement, then we get into the question of what "public" means IN LAW. I assure you that IN LAW in Canada, USA, UK, and as far as the EU is concerned, the internet and Usenet are NOT "public", they are private cooperations. If someone chooses not to cooperate with the social norms, then each entity that is part of that informal cooperative may make a fuss and request that the non-cooperative person be cut off; whether any action is taken in response is up to the local law and policies and contracts of the access provider. -Most- access providers in G8 countries will indeed take -some- action in response to complaints that have merit. That's because they know that if they don't play nice, that no-one is obliged to play nice with them. Providers that continually allow violation of the social norms find themselves put on blacklists and find that email messages and packets stop getting through. The mechanism that has evolved within Usenet is the UDP, "Usenet Death Penalty", in which a number of sites band together and block all Usenet traffic to and from the uncooperative host. UDP has seldom been used, but when has been used, it has usually been -very- effective, with few sites holding out more than 48 hours before agreeing to mend their ways. >2. Start your own private internet and private usenet. Internet and Usenet are *already* private, not public. >If you like to play mister dictator I have some nice advice for you: You implicitly threatened legal action against people who complained about your postings; you should not be surprised that people have pointed out that your legal claims are without merit. When you say, "I have a legal right to do X if I want to", and someone replies saying, "No you don't" and explaining some of the facts of the law, the replier is not being a dictator: the replier is being an *educator*. SignatureOkay, buzzwords only. Two syllables, tops. -- Laurie Anderson > >Nobody owns the entire internet and nobody owns a specific usenet newsgroup. > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > law, the replier is not being a dictator: the replier is being > an *educator*. Your education sucked with malformed examples. However you did point out that free speech is only about the goverment etc. Bye, Skybuck. > >2. Start your own private internet and private usenet. > > Internet and Usenet are *already* private, not public. Internet and usenet is public technology, nobody owns this technology. The infrastructure is a different matter. Bye, Skybuck. >> >2. Start your own private internet and private usenet. >> >> Internet and Usenet are *already* private, not public. > >Internet and usenet is public technology, nobody owns this technology. Not sure about that. Large parts of the technology are owned and private. It depends what you are specifically referring to. >The infrastructure is a different matter. That is all owned by some one as it is physical hardware and some one has to pay the electric bill. Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Personally, I do not use my ISP for news groups. I bought a wholesale newsgroup subscription for $8/month from giganews. I can also download in-theatre movies that my ISP blocks. -Robert >Personally, I do not use my ISP for news groups. I bought a wholesale >newsgroup subscription for $8/month from giganews. Smart. Many of the "technical geniuses" here can't figure this out and use Google. Bwha! >I can also download >in-theatre movies that my ISP blocks. >-Robert Oh, dude, dumb. You just told that to everyone on this swirling dirtball hurling through space and time. "Oh bother", said Pooh, as the CIA decrypted his hard drive. > Nobody owns the entire internet and nobody owns a specific usenet > newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > I rest my case so to speak ;) Just about any charter will tell you not to top post ;) -- LTP :) Your ISP is a private company and has every legal right to allow or disallow anything they want. You have every right to tell them to kiss off and get another ISP. The term "free speech" applies to U.S. gov't regulations and limitations, not private companies. -Robert > Your ISP is a private company and has every legal right to allow or > disallow anything they want. You have every right to tell them to kiss > off and get another ISP. The term "free speech" applies to U.S. gov't > regulations and limitations, not private companies. And the US is not the only country in the world. SignatureDave K http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/ Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam. It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc) > And the US is not the only country in the world. Can you provide a citation to support this ludicrous claim? :-) >> And the US is not the only country in the world. > >Can you provide a citation to support this ludicrous claim? >:-) Notice the smiley above. Oh man, this is better than a Marx Bros. movie. An entire branch of "oh-so-serious" posts off this obvious *joke* post. With all the misdirection and slapstick confusion maybe it's more like the 3 Stooges. :-) "I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it." Apparently neither do a lot of people. :-) How does that related to this discussion? -Robert >How does that related to this discussion? How does what relate to what discussion? Please read this, before posting again. SignaturePlease quote enough of the previous message for context. To do so from Google, click "show options" and use the Reply shown in the expanded header. >How does that related to this discussion? Perhaps the point is that usenet is available to the 80% of humans who do not live in the USA. Therefore whatever free speech laws may or may not apply in the US, are pretty bloody irrelevant. Mark McIntyre The poster is in the U.S. using a U.S. ISP. Remind me again how 80% of the world not in the U.S. is related to this discussion. -Robert > The poster is in the U.S. using a U.S. ISP. Remind me again how 80% of > the world not in the U.S. is related to this discussion. > > -Robert You are still not quoting what you are replying to -- LTP :) > The poster is in the U.S. using a U.S. ISP. Remind me again how 80% of > the world not in the U.S. is related to this discussion. Using your modern newsreader you should have been able to detect that the original poster is neither in the U.S. nor is he using a U.S. ISP. He uses a Dutch ISP (tiscali.nl) and posts from the Netherlands. Signaturedik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ > > The poster is in the U.S. using a U.S. ISP. Remind me again how 80% of > > the world not in the U.S. is related to this discussion. > > Using your modern newsreader *snip* ROFL -- LTP :) >>How does that related to this discussion? > > Perhaps the point is that usenet is available to the 80% of humans who > do not live in the USA. Therefore whatever free speech laws may or may > not apply in the US, are pretty bloody irrelevant. > Mark McIntyre There is no law in the US that says an ISP can't limit what is being posted through it. SignatureLTP :) > How does that related to this discussion? It is related beause Robery M. Gary (you) said: > The term "free speech" applies to U.S. gov't > regulations and limitations, not private companies. Hence Dave's reply: > And the US is not the only country in the world. Unfortunately you don't quote properly so your post lost all context (luckily I was using google so I can see the context). This is why not quoting is bad. BTW, dave was saying, between the lines: > The term "free speech" applies to gov't regulations and > limitations, not private companies. You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with 20th century news readers appreciate not having to see the same post quoted over and over again when its visiable right above the referenced post graphically. -Robert > You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who > read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with > 20th century news readers appreciate not having to see the same post > quoted over and over again when its visiable right above the referenced > post graphically. Those of us with 21st.C newsreaders can press a key to have all the quoted material condensed to one line per block. Those of us with 21st.C newsreaders can press a key to go immediately to the next new text. Those of us (the majority) who do not use Google groups cannot see previous messages without quoting. Those messages may not even have been propagated to our newsservers, or they may already have expired. SignatureChris F.A. Johnson, author | <http://cfaj.freeshell.org> Shell Scripting Recipes: | My code in this post, if any, A Problem-Solution Approach | is released under the 2005, Apress | GNU General Public Licence > You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who > read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with > 20th century news readers appreciate not having to see the same post > quoted over and over again when its visiable right above the referenced > post graphically. I used slrn and now I'm using Thunderbird. Both of them try to make a really good of threading replies properly, like Google does. The only problem is that I don't want to go through the huge trees of posts and replies to read the unread ones so I filter them by unread hiding the other posts. This way the client threads only the visible posts and there are cases when I have only one unread message from a thread, thus nothing to thread. Quoting is common sense otherwise it's called abuse. You're abusing people who read your posts. If you don't want people to read them use IM or private messages on discussion forums. I'll leave you with your 20th century client... I'm using the 21st century ones. SignatureIoan - Ciprian Tandau tandau _at_ freeshell _dot_ org (hope it's not too late) (... and that it still works...) > You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who > read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with > 20th century news readers appreciate not having to see the same post > quoted over and over again when its visiable right above the referenced > post graphically. Wow - I'm glad that you know what I want to see more than I do. Has it ever occured to you that good quoting, and snipping gives more than a mere point of reference in a thread? Although - I see people come to usenet with a chip on their shoulder all the time - they get ignored, flamed, plonked by the regulars. But the important thing is that you know what you are doing is right, so f.ck the charter - no wait, f.ck the world, ignore the advice and post in the way that you see fit. After all - that's what trolls are for. -- LTP :) I couldn't have said it better myself. -Robert > I couldn't have said it better myself. > > -Robert Say what better? Who are you talking with? You should let other people know what you are referring to and who said what. Please follow the advice Chuck has in his signature or follow his example and use a news reader other than Google Groups. If you use Google Search you can get a list of open servers that allow posting and have c.l.c (I think all open servers have c.l.c.). I am using aioe.org, an open nntp server that allows posting and is updated fast enough. You can also buy membership from an nntp service provider. You can also pay $1 to freeshell.org and validate a life-time shell account and use that (although you may think that using the console is so '80s it's still in the 20th century and still widely used in the 21st century :-) ). A list of clients (readers) that people in this group use: - Thunderbird - Mozilla - Outlook Express - Forte Agent - slrn - tin - KNode - Gnus (Emacs|XEmacs) You can use Google, again, to find their web sites. SignatureIoan - Ciprian Tandau tandau _at_ freeshell _dot_ org (hope it's not too late) (... and that it still works...) > You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure > people who read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, > those of us with 20th century news readers appreciate not having > to see the same post quoted over and over again when its > visiable right above the referenced post graphically. Wake up. Google is not usenet. Google is a broken interface to usenet, which has existed since long before google or even the web. Real newsreaders provide many services. They DO NOT in general show other posts at the same time. Stop being rude and annoying. Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> > You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who > read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Robert Aa a *minimum* you would have improved the clarity immensely by quoting it something like this: ------suggested better quoting method--- >> The term "free speech" applies to U.S. gov't regulations >> and limitations, not private companies. > And the US is not the only country in the world. How does that relate to this discussion? ---end of suggested better quoting method--- There is no reason to quote huge chucks, so the same will not be posted over and over again as you put it. Another good reason for adding context like that above, is that sometimes due to delays in routing IP traffic. It is quite possible someone would have the packets for your comment about "How does that relate to this discussion?" before the packets arrived on my comment saying the US is not the only country in the world. It just makes life a bit easier for all. dave k ---- http://www.southminster-branch-line.org.uk/ Please note my email address changes periodically to avoid spam. It is always of the form: month-year@domain. Hitting reply will work for a couple of months only. Later set it manually. The month is always written in 3 letters (e.g. Jan, not January etc) > You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who > read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Robert *plonk* >You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who >read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with >20th century news readers appreciate not having to see the same post >quoted over and over again when its visiable right above the referenced >post graphically. You are wrong. Google only do it differently to the rest of the world to save space. It *only* google users who do not follow the rules on replying. Signature\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > >You might want to invest in a modern news reader. I"m sure people who > >read news on a teletype have a hard time. However, those of us with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > save space. It *only* google users who do not follow the rules on > replying. Not following the rules when replying is far from being a Google user particular thing. There are plenty of rude a.s monkeys out there and their methods have nothing to do with their tools. >> Robert M. Gary <rmg1@my-deja.com> writes > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > user particular thing. There are plenty of rude a.s monkeys out > there and their methods have nothing to do with their tools. True, but googles foul interface encourages the misbehaviour, just as Outhouse Excess encourages top-posting. Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> > How does that related to this discussion? How is what related to what discussion? Before posting again, read the URL below. Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> > I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my > idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Bye, > Skybuck. Sine the ISP is In the drivers seat, so to speak. It maybe better to just communicate with them to find out the particulars. If you don't like them get another ISP. SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) >I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting >my > idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). > > I am not certain if it was a complaint from a prankster Has anyone pointed out it might be a Phisher? SignaturePhlip http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!! >> I have received a complaint from my internet service provider >> for posting my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). >> >> I am not certain if it was a complaint from a prankster > > Has anyone pointed out it might be a Phisher? Whatever, the complaint was well deserved. He seems to be still posting this crossposted junk. If he continues to offend a few more complaints might get him banned. Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> >>> I have received a complaint from my internet service provider >>> for posting my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > posting this crossposted junk. If he continues to offend a few > more complaints might get him banned. After sending this earlier I found the idiot had the gall to complain about me. At any rate, that brought forth an abuse report from me to his ISP. He also cancelled my followup to alt.dev.null Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> >>>> I have received a complaint from my internet service provider >>>> for posting my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > complain about me. At any rate, that brought forth an abuse report > from me to his ISP. He also cancelled my followup to alt.dev.null Do you subscribe to alt.dev.null? Do you have any reason to believe that the people there want to receive followups to this thread? You didn't even add it to the newsgroups list, just the Followup-To. Nor did you include a statement in the body of your message saying you had added a followup-to header. Maybe it was intended as a symbolic "don't reply to this" directive. In that case, maybe you should use an actual invalid newsgroup - and anyway, such a thing would be only symbolic, and removing it would be quite justified. Think of it this way: what if a troll placed such a followup-to in order to guarantee getting the last word? > > After sending this earlier I found the idiot had the gall to > > complain about me. At any rate, that brought forth an abuse report > > from me to his ISP. He also cancelled my followup to alt.dev.null > > Do you subscribe to alt.dev.null? Do you have any reason to believe that > the people there want to receive followups to this thread? Do you even know what alt.dev.null _is_? No, you don't, or you wouldn't have asked those questions. Richard >> > After sending this earlier I found the idiot had the gall to >> > complain about me. At any rate, that brought forth an abuse report [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Richard Fair enough, I didn't. However, I suspected, and the second half of my post [which you snipped] addressed that possibility. You still did not include a notification in the body of the message of the change to the headers, as is required by proper usenet etiquette. Incidentally, my news server forbids setting alt.dev.null in any header, including followup-to. Otherwise I would have retained it. In alt.dev.null "Richard Bos" wrote: >>> He also cancelled my followup to alt.dev.null Aw, that wasn't nice. >> Do you subscribe to alt.dev.null? Do you have any reason to believe >> that the people there want to receive followups to this thread? Of course we (tinw) do! Thus, the netizens of ADN are able to moniter all of the Users Network. > Do you even know what alt.dev.null _is_? > > No, you don't, or you wouldn't have asked those questions. The bitbucket has been emptied in readiness. [followups set] Chuck F. <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote: > After sending this earlier I found the idiot had the gall to > complain about me. At any rate, that brought forth an abuse report > from me to his ISP. He also cancelled my followup to alt.dev.null cbfalconer thinks that someone cancelled his post to alt.dev.null? Must be a forgery. The real cbfalconer isn't that stupid. > Chuck F. <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Must be a forgery. The real cbfalconer isn't that stupid. The claim was that the followup-to header was removed and ignored, not that a followup post was cancelled. Though, since my usenet provider allows neither posts nor followup-to headers to alt.dev.null, perhaps the person responding ran into a similar problem Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Chuck_F Bad boy Chuck, Bad boy !!! Bye, Bye, Skybuck. > >>> I have received a complaint from my internet service provider > >>> for posting my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > complain about me. At any rate, that brought forth an abuse report > from me to his ISP. He also cancelled my followup to alt.dev.null > Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! "lots" > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Chuck_F > > Bad boy Chuck, Bad boy !!! Uh, that page doesn't seem to say "Falconer" anywhere. But I think I have identified the crank in this situation... SignaturePhlip http://www.greencheese.org/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!! ... more inanities ... Having just switched newsreaders (back to NS 4.75 from Tbird) I have to re-enter all these plonks. Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> > Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Chuck_F > > Bad boy Chuck, Bad boy !!! [ snip ] After following this Wikipedia link, I am steaming mad with this 'chimp', of monkey Rhinopithecus roxellana. I spend any free time I have, late night into the morning hours, copy editing at Wikipedia. Reason, I think and believe in the concept of this free encyclopedia. Now to hear this chimp is causing a lot of wasted energy of everybody over there, wow. He, if he has a gender, needs to be deviced-down. He is leaving a big foot print. ============ abuse@tiscali.nl Thanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) > > Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ============ abuse@tiscali.nl Dude that's the wrong abuse address, that's my abuse address. The correct abuse address for Chuck F. is: abuse@maineline.net Look in the headers of your outlook express program in the posting of Chuck F. Gje, Bye, Skybuck. > "IchBin" <weconsul@ptd.net> wrote in message >>He is leaving a big foot print. >>============ abuse@tiscali.nl > Dude that's the wrong abuse address, that's my abuse address. Then it's the right one. > The correct abuse address for Chuck F. is: Who cares? You're the antisocial pig. >>> Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! >>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Bye, > Skybuck. Sorry and thanks.. Someone else earlier in this thread had posted this abuse address. I had not checked it out. Anyway, it did not match to what I had tracked down over at Wikipedia. It seems they locked his account out and then he has been showing up with different IP addresses. Thanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) >>>> Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Chuck_F >>>> >>>> Bad boy Chuck, Bad boy !!! [snip] >>> ============ abuse@tiscali.nl >> Dude that's the wrong abuse address, that's my abuse address. >> The correct abuse address for Chuck F. is: >> abuse@maineline.net [snip] > Sorry and thanks.. Someone else earlier in this thread had posted this > abuse address. I had not checked it out. Anyway, it did not match to > what I had tracked down over at Wikipedia. It seems they locked his > account out and then he has been showing up with different IP > addresses. Are you assuming that Chuck F who apparently has been abusing Wikipedia is the same person as the Chuck F who posts here in comp.lang.c? That's a very bad assumption. Chuck is a common first name, and F is a common last initial. Check your facts before complaining to anyone's ISP. This Wikipedia issue, like the rest of this discussion, has nothing to do with any of these newsgroups. Please take it elsewhere. SignatureKeith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst> We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this. > >>>> Even wikipedia has lot's of dirt on you ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Chuck_F > >>>> Bad boy Chuck, Bad boy !!! > [snip] [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > name, and F is a common last initial. Check your facts before > complaining to anyone's ISP. If you had a brain you would agree with me that his behaviour is the same. He's an editing freak. Just look at how he tried to edit these posts and others. I rest my case your honor. > This Wikipedia issue, like the rest of this discussion, has nothing to > do with any of these newsgroups. Please take it elsewhere. I suggest you do the same. Bye, Skybuck. Happy to be of service. > >> I have received a complaint from my internet service provider > >> for posting my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Whatever, the complaint was well deserved. He seems to be still Not at all ! You are lieing your a.s off. You accuse me of trolling, excessive cross posting, top posting which is allowed, etc, etc, etc. Non of which is true ! My complaints against you however is justified ! > posting this crossposted junk. If he continues to offend a few > more complaints might get him banned. Yes why don't you go ahead and complain some more at my ISP. After this post I am going to complain again about you for continueing to complain about bullshit. Have a nice day ! My ISP is geting a good education from you ! Bye, Skybuck. Skybuck Flying said: > I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting > my idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). What an excellent idea. The next time you post idiotic off-topic ramblings on comp.lang.c, I shall certainly consider complaining to your ISP, which obviously takes its responsibilities very seriously. If your ISP receives enough complaints about you, it will eventually shut you down, and everybody on comp.lang.c will gain from this. Alternatively, you could self-regulate. SignatureRichard Heathfield "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999 http://www.cpax.org.uk email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously) > Skybuck Flying said: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Alternatively, you could self-regulate. Yeah interesting. Anyone know Skybuck's ISP so we can all complain? Better yet, why not someone write an email template or web form we can auto-fill and send it to his ISP? >> Skybuck Flying said: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Better yet, why not someone write an email template or web form we can > auto-fill and send it to his ISP? I doubt that an ISP would be impressed by multiple nearly identical complaints about the same person. I suspect 10 individually written complaints would be more effective than 100 copies of a form letter. SignatureKeith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst> We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this. > >> Skybuck Flying said: > >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > complaints about the same person. I suspect 10 individually written > complaints would be more effective than 100 copies of a form letter. Hmm.. OK I agree with you there. Identical letters can be less useful (though they have been used to great effect by Amnesty International - just change the handwriting). Then I guess individually written complaints are better. Any guide on what to write? >> >> Skybuck Flying said: >> >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > just change the handwriting). Then I guess individually written > complaints are better. Any guide on what to write? If I wanted to complain about an abusive poster, I would find out who the poster's ISP is, read their terms of service, and submit specific examples of behavior that violate specific clauses of the ToS agreement. If that's not possible, either because the ISP doesn't have a written ToS agreement or because it's not specific enough, I'd submit specific examples of behavior I consider abusive, along with a brief statement about why it's abusive. Abuse contact addresses can be found via <http://www.abuse.net/lookup.phtml>. For the moment, I'm not saying anything about whether any specific poster warrants this kind of complaint. Decide for yourselves. And since this entire thread is cross-posted to three newsgroups, and is topical in exactly none of them, I suggest we all stop posting. SignatureKeith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst> We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this. > > Skybuck Flying said: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > What an excellent idea. > Yeah interesting. Anyone know Skybuck's ISP so we can all complain? > Better yet, why not someone write an email template or web form we can > auto-fill and send it to his ISP? Unless he uses forged headers, it's: X-Complaints-To: abuse@tiscali.nl My hunch is that his postings are influenced by LSD. Signaturepete >>> Skybuck Flying said: >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > My hunch is that his postings are influenced by LSD. Thanks for the heads up. SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) >> Skybuck Flying said: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > complain? Better yet, why not someone write an email template or > web form we can auto-fill and send it to his ISP? Just look at the headers in his messages, which include: X-Complaints-To: abuse@tiscali.nl inserted by his ISP for just this sort of reason. When you complain make sure you include at least a full copy of his message headers. Attaching the original (as text) or pasting in from the source display is useful. Include reasons, such as persistent off-topicality and excess cross-posting, and continuous flaming. He has definitely contrived to annoy me, and I am feeling unusually vindictive. Signature"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> >>> Skybuck Flying said: [snip] > X-Complaints-To: abuse@tiscali.nl [snip] What IP range is that in or IP address.. Just want to narrow it down and match with IP address doing destruction over in Wikipedia. SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) >>>> Skybuck Flying said: > [snip] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What IP range is that in or IP address.. Just want to narrow it down and > match with IP address doing destruction over in Wikipedia. Looks like from RIPE (Réseaux IP Européens) its inetnum: 82.168.0.0 - 82.171.255.255 Not sure yet if this is the same guy doing damage at Wikipedia, yet. SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) CBFalconer is Chuck F. He is trying to frame me lol and creating confusion. All you need to do is look at Chuck F.'s posting headers for example via microsoft outlook or via google. The abuse address for Chuck F. is: abuse@maineline.net Bye, Skybuck. > >>>> Skybuck Flying said: > > [snip] [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not sure yet if this is the same guy doing damage at Wikipedia, yet. > CBFalconer is Chuck F. > > He is trying to frame me lol and creating confusion. <snipped/> He is trolling 3 NGs simultaneously, with success! Can we *please* silence him to death now? SignatureDag. > He is trolling 3 NGs simultaneously, with success! > > Can we *please* silence him to death now? No! We are amused by his antics. SignatureSincerely, Tris Orendorff [Two antennae meet on a roof, fall in love and get married. The ceremony wasn't much, but the reception was excellent.] >> He is trolling 3 NGs simultaneously, with success! >> >> Can we *please* silence him to death now? > > No! We are amused by his antics. If you're amused, that's fine, but most of us are bored and annoyed. Please don't feed the troll. SignatureKeith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst> We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this. > >> He is trolling 3 NGs simultaneously, with success! > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you're amused, that's fine, but most of us are bored and annoyed. > Please don't feed the troll. If you are bored and annoyed then don't read it. You're feeding the troll as much as anyone else by bitching about it. > >>>> Skybuck Flying said: > > [snip] [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not sure yet if this is the same guy doing damage at Wikipedia, yet. Chuck F or CBFalconer uses many different IP addressess via Proxies. I just had a great idea =D I am going to help you get revenge on Chuck F. You're so mad that I simply must help you here. I have just contacted wikipedia and sent them forth all information I have gathered about Chuck F ;) I wonder what action wikipedia will take ;) Bye, Skybuck. >>>>>> Skybuck Flying said: >>> [snip] [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Bye, > Skybuck. Thanks lot.. I would have never even been bothered and wasted my time on this thread until I saw all of the crap he is doing over at Wikipedia. Where did you post the info at Wikipedia.. Since Wikipedia have him in sight I was just going to collect their detailed info and send as evidence to his ISP. As far as what Wikipedia will do.. They will eventually contact his ISP since of is changing IP address. I guess. SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) >Thanks lot.. I would have never even been bothered and wasted my time on >this thread until I saw all of the crap he is doing over at Wikipedia. So, you're accepting the word of "Skybuck Flying" that "Chuck F" and "CBFalconer" are the same person? And you decided not to follow up on the first abuse address given just because "Skybuck Flying" said not to? Most of us learned long ago not to accept "Skybuck Flying"s word on anything. As one of the many who have kill-filed him, I'd appreciate it if you avoided any further discussion of this in c.l.c., where it's far off topic in any case. SignatureAl Balmer Sun City, AZ >> Thanks lot.. I would have never even been bothered and wasted my time on >> this thread until I saw all of the crap he is doing over at Wikipedia. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > it if you avoided any further discussion of this in c.l.c., where it's > far off topic in any case. Did not know.. Done SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) > >Thanks lot.. I would have never even been bothered and wasted my time on > >this thread until I saw all of the crap he is doing over at Wikipedia. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the first abuse address given just because "Skybuck Flying" said not > to? You're an idiot dude. It's in his mailings. I rest my case your honor. Bye, Skybuck. >So, you're accepting the word of "Skybuck Flying" that "Chuck F" and >"CBFalconer" are the same person? And you decided not to follow up on >the first abuse address given just because "Skybuck Flying" said not >to? Perhaps "IchBin" and "Skybuck Flying" are the same person, posing as two to give the impression of support? -- Richard > Perhaps "IchBin" and "Skybuck Flying" are the same person, posing > as two to give the impression of support? I doubt it. IchBin is well known on comp.lang.java.programmer. -- chris >> So, you're accepting the word of "Skybuck Flying" that "Chuck F" and >> "CBFalconer" are the same person? And you decided not to follow up on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -- Richard No, not at all. I guess you can look at my headers.. I wash my hands of this thread. I should have used better judgment and cooled down and never got involved in this thread. SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) <snip> >> Chuck F or CBFalconer uses many different IP addressess via Proxies. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> I wonder what action wikipedia will take ;) > Thanks lot.. I would have never even been bothered and wasted my time on > this thread until I saw all of the crap he is doing over at Wikipedia. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > evidence to his ISP. As far as what Wikipedia will do.. They will > eventually contact his ISP since of is changing IP address. I guess. I somehow doubt that Skybuk Flying was doing this to help you. He was doing it to try to cause trouble for CBFalconer who is a well respected contributor to comp.lang.c and not a trouble maker. Skybuck Flying, on the other hand, is very much a trouble maker and troll who keeps trying to disrupt comp.lang.c and, from what I hear, other groups. SignatureFlash Gordon Living in interesting times. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > doing it to try to cause trouble for CBFalconer who is a well respected > contributor to comp.lang.c and not a trouble maker. Believe what you want FOOL. I am glad I am not a regular of this newsgroups ;) Bye, Skybuck. >>>> Skybuck Flying said: > [snip] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What IP range is that in or IP address.. Just want to narrow it down and > match with IP address doing destruction over in Wikipedia. He is posing from 212.182.150.209, a DSL line handled by 12move.nl. Interestingly, I didn't see his IP change, probably he got a static assignment. Makes blocking him so much easier. /Thomas SignatureThe comp.lang.java.gui FAQ: ftp://ftp.cs.uu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/computer-lang/java/gui/faq http://www.uni-giessen.de/faq/archiv/computer-lang.java.gui.faq/ >>>>> Skybuck Flying said: >> [snip] [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > /Thomas Tom, not sure about 212.182.150.209 but here is what I found on Chuck F.\CBFalconer in the last six months based on his posting to this group. Even his home page. From: "Chuck F. " <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> Reply-To: cbfalconer@maineline.net Organization: Ched Research <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.java.programmer Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.lisp Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.lang.java.programmer Path: local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.maineline.net!news.maineline.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.maineline.net!news.maineline.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.204.220.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.204.220.13 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.204.220.23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.204.220.150 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.137.192 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.138.2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.138.145 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.139.77 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.141.232 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@maineline.net SignatureThanks in Advance... IchBin, Pocono Lake, Pa, USA http://weconsultants.servebeer.com/JHackerAppManager __________________________________________________________________________ 'If there is one, Knowledge is the "Fountain of Youth"' -William E. Taylor, Regular Guy (1952-) > I have received a complaint from my internet service provider for posting my > idea's/opinions on this/these newsgroup(s). [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Bye, > Skybuck. I plonked you a long time ago, doesn't stop me seeing your junk when people quote you. I had hoped you'd just go away, you have nothing of interest to say. >> [..] > I plonked you a long time ago, doesn't stop me seeing your junk when > people quote you. I had hoped you'd just go away, you have nothing of > interest to say. Why would a troll go away if you keep feeding him? Besides, If he is not the Chuck F. causing the troubles I will be the first one to offer my apologies. His ISP is in a perfect position to warrant an investigation if they desire to do so. I have no desire to waste my time any further on this Chuck F. dude though I do find it quite amuzing lol. Bye, Skybuck. "Skybuck Flying" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:... > > IchBin <weconsul@ptd.net> writes: > > > Skybuck Flyi |
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