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Java Forum / General / January 2006Who is bookmarking my site?
The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who is visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative data to have. First of all, it would tell us "who" thinks our website is important enough to include us as book marks. But, more importantly, I can run statistical algorithms with that information to try to guess at who are bookmarked/repeat/new visitors to the website. I think there should be ways to do some server and/or client side programming to grab this information. How can you glean this info from the weblogs, for users you can/should not force through a registration rigor? How could cookies help with that? otf > The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who is > visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative data to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think there should be ways to do some server and/or client side > programming to grab this information. You can't solve this problem completely on the server, and you can't solve it completely on the client without privileged code (signed applets, replacing the web browser, or some such thing). What you can do is pay attention to the Referer header. If it's not present, that could give you a hint that the user either typed in the URL by hand or bookmarked the site; or, of course, they could just be using a browser that doesn't send Referer header.  Signaturewww.designacourse.com The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere. Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer MindIQ Corporation On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:16:51 -0500, Bookmarks <onetitfemme2005@yahoo.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who is >visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative data to >have. First of all, it would tell us "who" thinks our website is important >enough to include us as book marks. But, more importantly, I can run >statistical algorithms with that information to try to guess at who are >bookmarked/repeat/new visitors to the website. try a search on google with link:mindprod.com SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching. > The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who is > visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative data to > have. First of all, it would tell us "who" thinks our website is important > enough to include us as book marks. But, more importantly, I can run > statistical algorithms with that information to try to guess at who are > bookmarked/repeat/new visitors to the website. As Chris said bookmark visitors could just be a guess on non-referral visitors. You can take a look at some web analytics products, google recently announced their web analytics product which is free. > I think there should be ways to do some server and/or client side > programming to grab this information. > > How can you glean this info from the weblogs, for users you can/should not > force through a registration rigor? Most softwares these days have client code to capture information. > How could cookies help with that? Of course using cookies you can find out repeat visitor's/new visitors to your web-site. > otf Well, I am into this web analytics business too ;) > > The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who is > > visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative data to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You can take a look at some web analytics products, google recently > announced their web analytics product which is free. Normally if the visit of the user starts from non-public URL's then 95% chances are there that those are bookmarked. Clubbed with repeat visitors I guess you can narrow down your estimation. > > I think there should be ways to do some server and/or client side > > programming to grab this information. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Well, I am into this web analytics business too ;) Bookmarks wrote on 16 jan 2006 in comp.lang.java.javascript: > The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who > is visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative > data to have. It is not yours to have. SignatureEvertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Easy. For url http://abc.xyz always forward it to (for example) http://abc.xyz/abc.html User can bookmark only what is in the browser - so it would be http://abc.xyz/abc.html The rest is obvious. All http://abc.xyz are new requests. All http://abc.xyz/abc.html are bookmarked requests. P.S. That's not java question. > Easy. > For url http://abc.xyz always forward it to (for example) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > All http://abc.xyz are new requests. > All http://abc.xyz/abc.html are bookmarked requests. I don't think it's quite that easy - what if I remember the address and type it in myself? The request would not originate from my bookmarks, but as a new request from my browser... Question was to recognize bookmarks and typing. And answer was easy. It was not question "was it new request or not". In this case cookies would help. But then you can ask - "what if I delete cookies?" Or - what if I use different browser from the same machine... and so on and so on... And, again, this is not Java question. Alex. > It was not question "was it new request or not". In this case cookies would help. > But then you can ask - "what if I delete cookies?" otf: Well, yes "what if people delete cookies? (Which they should anyway ;-)) > Or - what if I use different browser from the same machine ... otf: Well, this is why I was trying to find a way (even if not 100% reliable) to get the network IP address of the computer. Say, I know (request headers tell you) that the user accepts java and you are able to send a signed applet to the user crafted in a way that you may run via the run time something like the command line statement via exec "ifconfig -a" . . . > And, again, this is not Java question. otf: No, it is not. But I remember these guys at servlets.com initially developed something called "BrowserHack" that was able (this of course is marketting bs) to detect 120 different features from the computer accessing the site. Inclusing the monitor geometry and depth ... That must have been heuristics to a large extent, but probably it is as far as it gets otf You have a very strange reply style. Not nescessarily bad; just remarking on its uniqueness. > > Or - what if I use different browser from the same machine ... > otf: Well, this is why I was trying to find a way (even if not 100% [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > via the run time something like the command line statement via exec > "ifconfig -a" The applet would have to be signed, and then the JRE would ask the user if they are willing to trust this applet. Otherwise, you cannot run commands on the machine via exec. And if you have 2 layers of NATs (like I have at my home), this would fail anyway. > . . . > > And, again, this is not Java question. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That must have been heuristics to a large extent, but probably it is > as far as it gets That was probably done via JavaScript, not Java. In JavaScript, it is possible, for example, to request a pop-up window to be maximized, and then to get the size of that window. From that, you can determine what the monitor geometry is. - Oliver > The statistics monitoring software we are using does not monitor who is > visiting us from bookmarks. To me, that would be very informative data to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > How could cookies help with that? It's unclear what information you want. The name, home address and phone numbers of everyone visiting your website? A list of IP addresses? Something else? - Oliver // __ > It's unclear what information you want. The name, home address and phone > numbers of everyone visiting your website? A list of IP addresses? Something > else? I need their IP addresses (and HostNames, which could be queried from the back end, but it would be nice if you could get it through some JS or java client code) // __ Alex wrote: > P.S. That's not java question. I know, the thing is that I could see there would be need for some back end programming/customization and pushing to the client, and I use Tomcat as web server otf > // __ >> It's unclear what information you want. The name, home address and phone [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the back end, but it would be nice if you could get it through some JS > or java client code) So to answer your original question, which was, <quote> How can you glean this info from the weblogs, for users you can/should not force through a registration rigor? </quote> is as follows: Most web servers will log the IP addresses of every request[*]. So you should be able to just open the log file, and scan through it for the information you need (where "scan through it" could be performed either by human eyes or by a program). For HostNames, the mapping between an IP address and a hostname can vary with time, so if you really need that info, it's best to get your server to determine the hostname the moment the request is made. If you want that info to be available to a client to your website (e.g. via a JavaApplet), you have to give your client read permission on your logs. - Oliver [*] The Apache HTTP server, for example, is capapble of logging the IP address and hostname of every request made to it. Oliver Wong wrote (and otf answered): > Most web servers will log the [*] The Apache HTTP server, for example, is capapble of logging the IP address and hostname of every request made to it.of every request[*]. ... > [*] The Apache HTTP server, for example, is capapble of logging the IP address and hostname of every request made to it. otf: the IP address that log files show is the one of their gateway/proxy server interfacing the internet, not the one inside their networks (which is what you need to internally tell apart one machine from the other and know better about their "bookmarks") > For HostNames, the mapping between an IP address and a hostname can vary with time, so if you really need that info, it's best to get your server to determine the hostname the moment the request is made. otf: that, of course, is taxing. So some caching strat and a close by DNS server would be really helpful Thanks otf > otf: the IP address that log files show is the one of their > gateway/proxy server [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > about their > "bookmarks") It's probably impossible to get the "internal" IP address. There is no reason for their gateway/proxy/router to give you that information, and some may outright refuse to do so as part of a security measure. - Oliver > > otf: the IP address that log files show is the one of their > > gateway/proxy server [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > - Oliver I was just wondering if this exercise is to find if the users are repeat / new visitor, then a persistent cookie would do. (Of course you need to consider the fact that a user can remove the cookies or reject it) >> > otf: the IP address that log files show is the one of their >> > gateway/proxy server [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I was just wondering if this exercise is to find if the users are > repeat / new visitor Indeed. See http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal <quote> Describe the goal, not the step If you are trying to find out how to do something (as opposed to reporting a bug), begin by describing the goal. Only then describe the particular step towards it that you are blocked on. Often, people who need technical help have a high-level goal in mind and get stuck on what they think is one particular path towards the goal. They come for help with the step, but don't realize that the path is wrong. It can take substantial effort to get past this. </quote> - Oliver Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. 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