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Java Forum / General / December 2005What is a good visual java enviroment?
I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some advice on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from scratch) for the past 8 years but I might have some projects coming up that could benefit from a visual editor. Applets and/or applications. I've heard good things about Visual J++ and Visual Cafe. It looks like Microsoft no longer supports J++ and wants you to port over to something called J# for the .Net framework. J# I've heard it is only "Java like". I don't want to program in anything that has been labeled "Java like". So I logged on to the Symantec site to have a look at Visual Cafe, but can't even find it listed as one of their products. Do they still make Visual Cafe or is their website just poorly designed? Any help or opinions will be greatly appreciated. Thomas > I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some advice > on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from scratch) for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thomas Try the Eclipse IDE. It's open source (free to use): eclipse.org Google on those: Eclipse NetBeans IntelliJ IDEA Regards > I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some > advice on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Any help or opinions will be greatly appreciated. I like Eclipse. You can find it at http://eclipse.org. I used Visual Age Java 3.0 years back and found it usable but it was always rather far behind in terms of supporting new versions of the JDK. When the rest of the world was using Java 1.3, they were still only supporting Java 1.1.x. I used JBuilder6 on a project three years ago and also found it fairly usable. I don't remember any nasty problems with it but I think it was fairly expensive, several hundred dollars a copy for the edition we had. Overall though, I would strongly recommend Eclipse. The product is quite mature, is full of features, can be extended fairly easily, has many plugins available to do specialized tasks, and has a very extensive set of newsgroups for support. On top of that, the price is right - free! Another IDE that I've seen recommended by many people is NetBeans, which is also free. (It can even be downloaded with Java 1.5.0_06 if you like.) I've never used NetBeans though so I have no idea if I'd like it, let alone if _you_ would! :-) Rhino >> Any help or opinions will be greatly appreciated. >> > I like Eclipse. You can find it at http://eclipse.org. I like Gel http://www.gexperts.com/ because it is simple, compact, no frills and starts up fast -- LTP :) I think I'll try the Eclipse Visual Editor. Looks like it's gaining strength and might even be around tomorrow. Unless someone has anything bad to say about it. Thanks for the pointers. Thomas >> I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some >> advice on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Rhino > I think I'll try the Eclipse Visual Editor. Looks like it's gaining > strength and might even be around tomorrow. Unless someone has anything > bad to say about it. I find it very badly designed. Cluttered, confusing, counter-intuitive, and -- what's perhaps worst of all -- underpowered. it has /lots/ of bells and whistles, but almost no fundamentally good design. Tinsel piled on tinsel. But don't let that put you off. For one thing, it is nevertheless the IDE I usually use myself. For another thing many people /do/ like it (possibly because they have never used a good IDE). My point is only that if you try it and find it as irritating as I do, then you shouldn't blame yourself, and also shouldn't assume that there is necessarily anything better out there[*]. ([*] I have heard good things said about both IntelliJ and the Oracle IDE. I tried IntelliJ for a few hours, and at least it does seem to have been /designed/ rather than /assembled/, but beyond that I can't comment on either of them.) -- chris >> I think I'll try the Eclipse Visual Editor. Looks like it's gaining >> strength and might even be around tomorrow. Unless someone has anything [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >and find it as irritating as I do, then you shouldn't blame yourself, and also >shouldn't assume that there is necessarily anything better out there[*]. Of course you should assume there is something better out there! One of the greatest advantages of programming in Java is the rich choice of tools. If you are not comfortable with one, why not try another? >([*] I have heard good things said about both IntelliJ and the Oracle IDE. I >tried IntelliJ for a few hours, and at least it does seem to have been >/designed/ rather than /assembled/, but beyond that I can't comment on either >of them.) Oh! So there is something better out there? [me:] > > My point is only > > that if you try it and find it as irritating as I do, then you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of the greatest advantages of programming in Java is the rich choice > of tools. You are clearly an optimist ;-) Actually, all I said or meant was that the OP shouldn't /assume/ that there would be something better. There might be, there might not. It would be a waste of time to keep trying /everything/ that came along in the hope that someday something good would turn up. Learned helplessness can be a useful tactic if it allows you to concentrate on making best use of the tools available (however crap they may be). > > ([*] I have heard good things said about both IntelliJ and the Oracle > > IDE. I tried IntelliJ for a few hours, and at least it does seem to > > have been /designed/ rather than /assembled/, but beyond that I can't > > comment on either of them.) > Oh! So there is something better out there? Not to /my/ knowledge, no (hearsay isn't knowledge). But then -- as I said -- my knowledge isn't complete... -- chris >[me:] >> > My point is only [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Not to /my/ knowledge, no (hearsay isn't knowledge). But then -- as I said -- >my knowledge isn't complete... I think your impression of "designed" rather than "assembled" indicates it really was better if only for you. However, I agree that someone could waste a lot of time searching for the ideal development environment, IDE or otherwise. My "optimism" is based on my experience with NetBeans 5 Beta 2. It continues to impress me by knowing considerably more about Java and related technologies than I do. It intervenes in a most helpful way to correct my code. Of course, this could confuse a beginner or irritate an expert; hence my advice to keep looking for a "suitable" development environment. > I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some advice > on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from scratch) for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thomas Oracle JDeveloper (otn.oracle.com) is free Cheers, Malte www.nmalte.dk On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:31:27 GMT, "Thomas Magma" <somewhere@overtherainbow.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > I've heard good things >about Visual J++ and Visual Cafe. These are long ago dead. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html  SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching. > I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some advice > on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from scratch) for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thomas just shop around, try all that you google for and pick the one you like. Tim >I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some advice >on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from scratch) for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Thomas I have posted what I believe to be a complete list of Java IDE's that include a visual editor here: <http://profectus.com.au/ee_JavaIDE.html>. Netbeans seems to have stolen the lead in visual editing with Matisse <http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/matisse.html> which is included in the 2nd Beta of NetBeans 5. If you are looking for a tool that will let you build Applets and Applications visually with a good visual editor and a good code editor have a look at the Free Oracle JDeveloper: http://otn.oracle.com/jdev You can see a demo of the development experience for Swing applications here: www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/tips/muench/screencasts/simplejgoodies/b inding_demo.html?_template=/ocom/ocom_item_templates/print > I'm shopping around for a good visual Java environment and need some advice > on what is a good choice. I have been programming Java (from scratch) for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thomas I prefer <a href="http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/">IntelliJ IDEA</a>. It has convenient interface, powerful refactoring actions and wide community that developing plugins for the tool. IDEA is often compared to Eclipse, however I thnik that it is much more stable and user=friendly than the last one. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. 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