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Java Forum / General / December 2005

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Job info for Columbus, OH

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pdedea@kforce.com - 07 Dec 2005 20:20 GMT
Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?
Tim Slattery - 07 Dec 2005 21:13 GMT
>Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?

Yes.

--  
Tim Slattery
Slattery_T@bls.gov
Chris Smith - 08 Dec 2005 01:21 GMT
> >Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?
>
> Yes.

There is some controversy over this.  Posting jobs seems to be frowned
upon when most people have jobs, and encouraged when people are looking.

In any case, this is the general-purpose Java programming newsgroup.  In
the absence of an alternative place to post, this is the right one.  
This is simply how newsgroups work.  If enough job postings start up
here and it interferes with the group, then someone will write up an RFD
and then a CFV for a job-specific group.  That will resolve the problem
once and for all.

(Note that I'm NOT saying there isn't a better place.  I haven't looked.  
Just use your best judgement.)

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Chris Smith - 07 Dec 2005 22:14 GMT
> Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?

Not necessarily, provided that:

1. You don't do it very often.
2. The jobs are clearly and directly related to Java programming.
3. You clearly identify that it's job position, and the location.

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Shrike - 07 Dec 2005 22:30 GMT
i don't have much experience with usenet groups, but perhaps you could
set up a comp.lang.java.jobs.columbus_ohio group somehow.  i don't
think anyone would have a problem with that, and would appreciate it if
they knew about it.
Oliver Wong - 07 Dec 2005 22:57 GMT
>i don't have much experience with usenet groups, but perhaps you could
> set up a comp.lang.java.jobs.columbus_ohio group somehow.  i don't
> think anyone would have a problem with that, and would appreciate it if
> they knew about it.

   Just for your information, it's not trivial to set up a new newsgroup
group (I like the sound of that: "new newsgroup group".) I'm not even sure
how you would go about doing it. There's an FAQ at
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/part1/ claiming to list
steps on creating a new group (it involves submitting a proposal to a
comittee and having them vote on it), but it hasn't been updated since 1997,
and I'm not sure if it still applies.

   - Oliver
Rhino - 08 Dec 2005 00:31 GMT
> Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?

I hope you weren't expecting to get a unanimous answer to your question :-)

Like all unmoderated newsgroups, there is no single voice - dictator or
elected leader - to speak for us all so you will probably get as many
answers to your questions as there are users of this newsgroup.

As far as I'm concerned, go right ahead and post your jobs here. But please
bear in mind that this newsgroups has participants from all over the world
so, if you're going to post a plum job, try to give some information on the
circumstances under which foreign nationals can hope to apply for the job.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are an ethical
recruiter but if you are not, I'd really rather you just went away and
didn't come back. Remember that old saying: "hell hath no fury like a woman
scorned"? Well, if you jerk around the people on this newsgroup, you may
find that scorned women have nothing on upset Java programmers.

Rhino
zero - 08 Dec 2005 00:59 GMT
> Like all unmoderated newsgroups, there is no single voice - dictator
> or elected leader - to speak for us all so you will probably get as
> many answers to your questions as there are users of this newsgroup.

Although quite a few unmoderated newsgroups do have a dictator who *thinks*
he speaks for everyone.  Usually they're ignored by the real posters.  
Funny sometimes.

> As far as I'm concerned, go right ahead and post your jobs here. But
> please bear in mind that this newsgroups has participants from all
> over the world so, if you're going to post a plum job, try to give
> some information on the circumstances under which foreign nationals
> can hope to apply for the job.

Seems to me like posting job offers on usenet is the hallmark of a bad
recruiting system.  Unless you really want to reach people all over the
world (as is the case in maybe 0.1% of job offers), there are much better
channels to reach people in the area you're targetting.  And a bad
recruiting system usually doesn't bode well for the rest of the company.

I have yet to see any job offer that includes a private jet (with pilot of
course) to bring me back home at the end of the day.
Rhino - 08 Dec 2005 04:59 GMT
>> Like all unmoderated newsgroups, there is no single voice - dictator
>> or elected leader - to speak for us all so you will probably get as
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> he speaks for everyone.  Usually they're ignored by the real posters.
> Funny sometimes.

I wonder if we're thinking of the same dictator ;-)

>> As far as I'm concerned, go right ahead and post your jobs here. But
>> please bear in mind that this newsgroups has participants from all
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> channels to reach people in the area you're targetting.  And a bad
> recruiting system usually doesn't bode well for the rest of the company.

Posting to international newsgroups for local jobs is clearly inefficient.
Then again, it's bound to work occasionally and that may be enough to
justify it in the recruiter's mind.

> I have yet to see any job offer that includes a private jet (with pilot of
> course) to bring me back home at the end of the day.

If they gave me the private jet, I'd probably be willing to take flying
lessons so that I can fly myself home :-)

Rhino
zero - 08 Dec 2005 16:41 GMT
> If they gave me the private jet, I'd probably be willing to take
> flying lessons so that I can fly myself home :-)

Well maybe, if the lessons are paid by the company, and on company time.

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Oliver Wong - 08 Dec 2005 17:06 GMT
>>> Like all unmoderated newsgroups, there is no single voice - dictator
>>> or elected leader - to speak for us all so you will probably get as
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
> I wonder if we're thinking of the same dictator ;-)

   Does his/her name contain the character 'e'?

> Posting to international newsgroups for local jobs is clearly inefficient.
> Then again, it's bound to work occasionally and that may be enough to
> justify it in the recruiter's mind.

   Recruiting, from what I understand, is an expensive process. Posting on
usenet is essentially free. Couldn't hurt.

   - Oliver
Viator - 08 Dec 2005 08:37 GMT
You have better places to get people. Let this place be a newgroup for
discussing JAVA not jobs.

Amit :-)
Thomas Weidenfeller - 08 Dec 2005 09:43 GMT
> Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?

Order? I guess you mean offer. To answer your question: Yes, you would
abuse the public resources of a discussion(!) newsgroup for your own
advertising of a job. Post to one of the job offering newsgroups, some
of the many job boards, or pay for normal advertising.

/Thomas

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Daniel Dyer - 08 Dec 2005 09:49 GMT
> Would I be intruding if I was to post PERMANENT Job orders here?

I don't speak for the group, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Even  
though many (most?)posters, myself included, would not be interested in  
jobs in Ohio.  If it's a specific Java position and flagged as a job  
posting in the subject then I don't see an issue.  If it's some  
recruitment company posting every single IT job they have on file then it  
would quickly become unwelcome.

A couple of suggestions I would make to anybody advertising a position:

1).  This is an international group so you should indicate whether, and  
under what circumstances, international applications would be accepted.

2).  Please indicate which country the position is in.  US companies seem  
to be particularly guilty of omitting this information.  Many places in  
the US are named after European towns and cities (Athens, Birmingham,  
Boston, Cambridge, Dover etc.) so if you don't specify the country it's  
not clear where you are (state abbreviations often mean nothing to  
non-Americans).

Dan.

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Daniel Dyer
http://www.dandyer.co.uk

Chris Uppal - 08 Dec 2005 10:15 GMT
> Many places in
> the US are named after European towns and cities (Athens, Birmingham,
> Boston, Cambridge, Dover etc.)

East coast...

   -- chris
Daniel Dyer - 08 Dec 2005 10:28 GMT
>> Many places in
>> the US are named after European towns and cities (Athens, Birmingham,
>> Boston, Cambridge, Dover etc.)
>
> East coast...

Yes, New England is, unsurprisingly, full of English place names, but  
there are Spanish place names in California too.  It's not just the US  
though, Australia is full of cities named after British places (Perth,  
Newcastle, St. Kilda, Tamworth, plus lots of much smaller towns).

If you post a position in Perth is it in Scotland or Western Australia?  
If you want someone in Boston, Lincolnshire you had better specify that or  
you will get applicants from Boston, Massachussets.

Dan.

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Daniel Dyer
http://www.dandyer.co.uk



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