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Java Forum / General / October 2005Alternatives to Tomcat
Hi all, I'm starting to get heartily sick of Tomcat 5.0, which just doesn't seem to be cutting it in our production environment. Apart from Sun's Web Application Server, what stable alternatives are there that can support upwards of 10 000 requests per day? Our environment is Solaris and Linux-based, and our portals are simple two-tier webapps. Thanks.  SignaturePeter Davies > I'm starting to get heartily sick of Tomcat 5.0, which just doesn't seem > to be cutting it in our production environment. > > Apart from Sun's Web Application Server, what stable alternatives are > there that can support upwards of 10 000 requests per day? Our environment > is Solaris and Linux-based, and our portals are simple two-tier webapps. You forgot to mention a price range. >> I'm starting to get heartily sick of Tomcat 5.0, which just doesn't seem >> to be cutting it in our production environment. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You forgot to mention a price range. Point. Our shop is open-source based, but it can stretch quite a distance if the motivation for commercial software is there. I'm more interested in usability, performance and support - someone else can haggle over the price. SignaturePeter Davies (high volume server) > ..I'm more interested in > usability, performance and support - someone else can haggle over the > price. 'All prices considered at this stage'. Cool. I notice Roedy has given you some possibilities 'in that range'. ;-) > >> I'm starting to get heartily sick of Tomcat 5.0, which just doesn't seem > >> to be cutting it in our production environment. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > usability, performance and support - someone else can haggle over the > price. - JBoss 3.2 or 4.0 - Bea WebLogic 8.1 or 9.0 - IBM WebSphere 5.0, 5.1 or 6.0 - Oracle AS 9i or 10g - ATG Dynamo 6.3, 6.4 or 7.0 - SAP Web App Server 6.2 or 6.4 - Caucho Resin - JRun 4.0 I think that pretty much covers the field. If you are going to spend money WebLogic, WebSphere and Oracle are the higher priced app servers. If you are looking for something better than Tomcat I'd think these are hugely overpowered for your needs. I kind of like JBoss. The price is the same as Tomcat. If you pick JBoss pick a release and stick with it. I found that each revision has a different set of quirks that you have to overcome but once you get something working it works quite well; just don't upgrade the server. SignatureSend e-mail to: darrell dot grainger at utoronto dot ca . wrote: > - JBoss 3.2 or 4.0 > - Bea WebLogic 8.1 or 9.0 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I think that pretty much covers the field. You forgot (at least) Jetty and Orion. HT >> I think that pretty much covers the field. > >You forgot (at least) Jetty and Orion. My list has about 40 entries see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/servletwomb.html SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. > My list has about 40 entries You did miss Sybase's: <http://www.sybase.com/products/developmentintegration/easerver> Larry Coon University of California >You did miss Sybase's: > ><http://www.sybase.com/products/developmentintegration/easerver> Thanks, now added. I learned my SQL on Sybase. I remember being so blown away at how fast it was given all the fooling around I knew it had to do to analyse my queries and all the futzing getting info in and out of SQL. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. >> Point. Our shop is open-source based, but it can stretch quite a distance >> if the motivation for commercial software is there. I'm more interested in >> usability, performance and support - someone else can haggle over the >> price. > >- JBoss 3.2 or 4.0 Except that JBoss uses Tomcat (by default) for JSP/Servlets. >I kind of like JBoss. The price is the same as Tomcat. If you pick JBoss >pick a release and stick with it. I found that each revision has a >different set of quirks that you have to overcome but once you get >something working it works quite well; just don't upgrade the server. -- now with more cowbell > >> Point. Our shop is open-source based, but it can stretch quite a distance > >> if the motivation for commercial software is there. I'm more interested in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Except that JBoss uses Tomcat (by default) for JSP/Servlets. True but I have found JBoss to be more robust. I have written apps and load tested them on JBoss. Once I find the settings for my tool that will overload the app, I deploy it on Tomcat and run the same tests. Tomcat tends to die before the app. I have to dial down the load to make Tomcat not crash. SignatureSend e-mail to: darrell dot grainger at utoronto dot ca >Apart from Sun's Web Application Server, what stable alternatives are >there that can support upwards of 10 000 requests per day? Our environment >is Solaris and Linux-based, and our portals are simple two-tier webapps. for a list of possibilities, see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/servletwomb.html SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > there that can support upwards of 10 000 requests per day? Our environment > is Solaris and Linux-based, and our portals are simple two-tier webapps. Can you give us more information on why Tomcat isn't cutting it? I ask from interest, because I have sites running Tomcat, wome of which must be getting similar traffic, and I haven't seen any problems. Admittedly, I don't think any of them is running version 5 of Tomcat, but the busiest one is running version 4 on a single Sun box. Cheers, Luke >Can you give us more information on why Tomcat isn't cutting it? I ask >from interest, because I have sites running Tomcat, wome of which must >be getting similar traffic, and I haven't seen any problems. Admittedly, >I don't think any of them is running version 5 of Tomcat, but the >busiest one is running version 4 on a single Sun box. What he might be hinting at is that you need some information on tuning tomcat. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. >>Can you give us more information on why Tomcat isn't cutting it? I ask > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What he might be hinting at is that you need some information on > tuning tomcat. For 10,000 requests per day? Even if we take that as an 8-hour business day, that's still only one request every three seconds. Tomcat should have no trouble with that sort of load, Shirley? I dunno. I suspect it's not Tomcat causing the problems here. It may well be a simple case of bad design in the webapp or the database. Luke > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks. IMHO Jetty would be more than adequate for your needs. http://jetty.mortbay.org/ SignatureRoss Bamford - rosco@roscopeco.remove.co.uk > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks. Caucho's Resin (http://www.caucho.com) I've got some bad news for you...Tomcat isn't your problem. You need to take a look at the performance of your apps. I have run Tomcat 5 on a very high volume set of applications (several multiples of the load that you describe) without difficulty. I think you should spend your time profiling your applications (something that is not given nearly enough attention by most developers and groups). Mind you, the strength of the machine you are on could play a role here too...we like to believe that resources are never ending on modern boxes, but this simply isn't the case. A little bit of bad code (we all have it) can cause a lot of problems. > I think you should spend your >time profiling your applications (something that is not given nearly >enough attention by most developers and groups). There is a belief that you should push all your concerns about performance to the last minute. That just makes them all the harder to correct. Performance should be a concern at every stage so that you don't end up having to redo everything in a totally different way. The silliness that Knuth warns about is FINE TUNING the optimisation where it does not need it, or before things have not settled sufficiently. He is not recommending postponing performance considerations when designing data structures or basic algorithms which are hard to change later. SignatureCanadian Mind Products, Roedy Green. http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts. We easily run over 100,000 transactions per day with a WebSphere server (< 1% CPU usage) but I think that Tomcat should be able to handle that kind of volume as well. You might want to check for other problems such as memory leaks, database locks, etc. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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