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Java Forum / GUI / September 2006Alternative to Eclipse
Hi all, I am planning to develop a modelling tool, let us say something akin a tool that would allow users to Network diagrams. There is no 3-d representation involved, all the diagrams would be represented as flat 2d. I was evaluating Eclipse plugin development as one of the approaches. Can anybody suggest other toolkits / development platforms I should evaluate? Any tips and suggestions would be helpful. Thanks and Regards, Enigma. >Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Can anybody suggest other toolkits / development platforms I should >evaluate? NetBeans <http://www.netbeans.org/products/platform/>. > > I was evaluating Eclipse plugin development as one of the approaches. > > > > Can anybody suggest other toolkits / development platforms I should > > evaluate? > NetBeans <http://www.netbeans.org/products/platform/>. Unless you are suggesting that NetBeans is a good platform to build a modelling tool /on/ (not /with/) then I think you are missing the point. To the OP: if the biggest part of your problem is handling graph-like structures (in the sense of networks of nodes and links, not "business graphics"), then it might be worth taking a look at Guess http://graphexploration.cond.org/index.html to sound out the approaches it uses in its implementation. -- chris >>> Can anybody suggest other toolkits / development platforms I should >>> evaluate? >> NetBeans <http://www.netbeans.org/products/platform/>. > > Unless you are suggesting that NetBeans is a good platform to build a modelling > tool /on/ (not /with/) then I think you are missing the point. I think he was suggesting to use the NetBeans /Platform/ to build the tool. That's why the link poins to the platform not to the IDE part of the website Thomas  SignatureIt's not a RootKit - it's a Sony > > > > Can anybody suggest other toolkits / development platforms I should > > > > evaluate? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think he was suggesting to use the NetBeans /Platform/ to build the > tool. Yes, on reflection I think you're right. -- chris >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> I was evaluating Eclipse plugin development as one of the approaches. When looking at doing it in Eclipse you should also look at the Graphical Editor Framework, which is designed to easily allow you to create a rich, graphical editing environment. See http://www.eclipse.org/gef/ SignatureDale King Thanks Dale, I have taken a look at the GEF framework while evaluating Eclipse as an option. Thanks all for the inputs. Awaiting more tips from Gurus out there :) Regards, Enigma > >> Hi all, > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > See http://www.eclipse.org/gef/ > I was evaluating Eclipse plugin development as one of the approaches. If you're playing with plugins, you might want to take a look at JSR 198 Regards, Richard Hi Richard, Thanks for this insight. Can you put more light onto how I can leverage this? Is eclipse now conformant to this standard? Can you point out any IDE's which are already conformant to the JSR. Thanks and Regards, Enigma > > I was evaluating Eclipse plugin development as one of the approaches. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Richard > Can you point out any IDE's which are already conformant to the JSR. Since Oracle proposed the standard, I'd imagine JDeveloper already conforms to it: http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/htdocs/techinfo/JSREclipse.html According to this JavaLobby article, it does: http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t64517.html Now it'd be *nice* if Netbeans and Eclipse did, but I don't believe they do, at least not yet. Your best bet is to ask in the Eclipse groups about it (news.eclipse.org). You can register to access them here: http://www.eclipse.org/newsgroups/ SignatureDavid The delusion that people care about what I think: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/daorriss/ >> Can you point out any IDE's which are already conformant to the JSR. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/jdev/htdocs/techinfo/JSREclipse.html The take I get from reading that is that it has nothing to do with promoting any kind of standard way of writing plug-ins, but is more taking a shot at Eclipse. It looks to me like Oracle doesn't like the competition from Eclipse and is trying to push through a standard that Eclipse cannot meet without a complete tear-up requiring all plug-ins to be rewritten. It looks like they got a few others that don't like the competition from Eclipse (NetBeans, IdeaJ, etc.) to go along with them. It almost seems to border on collusion to design a standard whose sole purpose is to exclude your major competitor. It looks like JetBrains (the maker of IdeaJ) later pulled-out of the effort: http://www.orablogs.com/duffblog/archives/001014.html That entry also seems to lend credence to the notion that JSR198 was an anti-competitive measure against Eclipse: "I find this JSR ... important because plugin architecture is the only plus of eclipse and by unifying it in IDEs like IDEA, Netbeans or JDeveloper ..., we would get ... some more competition and inovation in the IDE area." From googling around it looks like this is a controversial topic. SignatureDale King > From googling around it looks like this is a controversial topic. Indeed. Signature"My first thought was, he lied in every word, That hoary cripple, with malicious eye Askance to watch the working of his lie" - Browning > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Enigma. Hi all, Thanks for all the tips and suggestion. It has been a great help. I have as of now been evaluating the Eclipse framework and am in process of evaluating the Netbeans framework However, I do not have to restrict myself to developing the modelling tool as Plugin. Are there any UI toolkits / frameworks I should consider? Regards, Enigma >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >However, I do not have to restrict myself to developing the modelling >tool as Plugin. There is an implication in that sentence that if you use Eclipse or NetBeans as platform that you will end up with a Plugin for Eclipse or NetBeans. That is probably the most convenient way to develop your application and, at least with NetBeans, that is the concept behind it because everything is supposed to be a Plugin. However, when you release your application it can be stand-alone and you can delete all the functions in the IDE that your application does not need. >>> Hi all, >>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > release your application it can be stand-alone and you can delete all > the functions in the IDE that your application does not need. The same applies with Eclipse. Everything is a plug-in and the non-IDE application is called RCP (rich client platform). SignatureDale King David Segall wrote on 07.09.2006 19:13: > That is probably the most convenient way to develop your > application and, at least with NetBeans, that is the concept behind it > because everything is supposed to be a Plugin. That is certainly not true for the NetBeans platform. The NetBeans platform was initially designed to support stand-alone applications, the IDE beeing the first use of that. With 5.0 (and more so with 5.5) the NetBeans team as put a lot of work into making the life for plugin-developers easier, but still (as far as I can tell) the NetBeans /platform/ is mainly intended to create standalong applications (aka Rich Client Applications). Here is a small list of applications based on the platform: http://www.netbeans.org/products/platform/screenshots.html Thomas >David Segall wrote on 07.09.2006 19:13: >> That is probably the most convenient way to develop your [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >initially designed to support stand-alone applications, the IDE beeing the first >use of that. Either I expressed myself badly or you are responding to a snipped post. My point was that NetBeans was intended as a series of modules that plug together and that you could produce a new stand alone application by writing additional modules and deleting or modifying the existing ones to suit. Here's the original: "Enigma" <shrivallabh@gmail.com> wrote: >Enigma wrote: >> Hi all, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >However, I do not have to restrict myself to developing the modelling >tool as Plugin. There is an implication in that sentence that if you use Eclipse or NetBeans as platform that you will end up with a Plugin for Eclipse or NetBeans. That is probably the most convenient way to develop your application and, at least with NetBeans, that is the concept behind it because everything is supposed to be a Plugin. However, when you release your application it can be stand-alone and you can delete all the functions in the IDE that your application does not need. David Segall wrote on 24.09.2006 13:26: >> David Segall wrote on 07.09.2006 19:13: >>> That is probably the most convenient way to develop your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> initially designed to support stand-alone applications, the IDE beeing the first >> use of that. > Either I expressed myself badly or you are responding to a snipped > post. My point was that NetBeans was intended as a series of modules > that plug together and that you could produce a new stand alone > application by writing additional modules and deleting or modifying > the existing ones to suit. Hmm, this sounds (to me) a bit different than you first post, and it does describe more or less want I wanted to say :) Maybe there is a misunderstanding is in the definition of "plugin". I think conceptually there is a difference between a plugin (as Eclipse defines it) and a module (as NetBeans defines it) The plugins in Eclipse could not live outside the Eclipse platform (as far as I understood), but some (most?, many?) modules from NetBeans do not rely on the NetBeans platform (they could rely on other modules though). The editor module for example could be used without the NetBeans platform as far as I understand. That's why I questioned your "everything is a _plugin_ in NetBeans" statement. I think the NetBeans concept is more modelled around "component based programming" than the Eclipse concept. From an IDE user's perspective I don't think there is a big difference though. And probably not from a plugin/module developers perspective. I think it's an architectural difference. Cheers Thomas I would also evaluate JetBrain's IntelliJ IDEA. I wrote two plugins for it about a year ago and it was really simple to get it working and test it (at least since they included the plugin development kit). The documentation was weak/non existent at the time but as I understood that became top priority just when I finished my plugins (we were too many complaining:-). Also if you are quick there is a competition going on: http://plugins.intellij.net/contest/ PS I haven't written any plugin for Eclipse so I don't know how they compare. Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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