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Java Forum / Java 3D / November 2004CAD -> CAM/CNC s/w + h/w jewellery + small sculpture
I'd like a small desktop machine to produce jewellery items, rings, earrings, the odd torc and small sculpture - probably 20-30 cubic centimetres is the largest size I'd want to work in and half that size would probably be find - though a bit small for torcs. I need pretty good detail on a subtrate that casts well for the production of silver or gold jewellery. I've been having a look at software and systems on the market now and it looks as if things have got a lot cheaper and better over the past few years. It is difficult to decide what is a good system to get with such a variety. So any advice would be really useful. I'm looking for CAD software that can produce standard CNC output, get input from a 3d -scanner and is easy to manipulate visually. I'm not sure if there is good linux, Apple Mac or other s/w about, but I'm not really looking for a mega-expensive application used to design high performance motor car engines! I like the look of the Roland machine http://www.torcomp.com/products/product_detail.cfm?productid=9275 which is a good price too at <US$4000. I mention this just to give the idea - if there is something with better detail, faster, bigger, cheaper and so forth on the market, then I'd love to hear about it! The 3d printers apparently produce quite arough finish that would be no good for jewellery and they're expensive. I'm happy to be persuaded that I'm wrong here too! To me the ultimate would be to have a system that enabled you to do jewellery and sculpture design with a VR headset (Virtual Reality) and a data glove - anything with a user interface approaching this level of simplicity would be good (does the Mac do something like this??). I'd really like to use this as a tool to design jewellery and make sculpture - I'm not wanting to become an expert on some complex software application. I'd be keener on something intuitive like Kodak photo enhancement software rather than something like photoshop or the gimp - though it would be nice to have access to those features the main thing would be to be able to see and rotate the object as you design it and to make changes easily and intuitively. I know that there are some companies that you can send CAD file to and they'll produce the object for you - I'm not really keen on the time it will take and I'm not sure it would work that well to South Africa anyway. Maybe there is such a company in Cape Town, which would be great, but, otherwise, I'd rather produce my own stuff at home fairly quickly even if the quality is a bit lower than send out for it to be made somewhere else. Any ideas of what I should be going for? >>The 3d printers apparently produce quite arough finish that would be >>no good for jewellery and they're expensive. I'm happy to be persuaded >>that I'm wrong here too! While some of the 3D printers, especially those that output larger sizes, or thermoplastic plastic models, produce surface finishes not good for immediate use in jewelry, the Solidscape and Modelmaster types, are quite good enough for jewelry, and are widely used in the jewelry industry. There is, still a little bit or stair stepping on the models, but the degree and size of the steps is so small as to present little problem for most uses. Normal finishing of a casting will remove it. If needed, one can dip the models in a lacquor (I think that's it), which tends to glaze over the surface stair stepping. If fact, as I write this, there is a used Solidscape T66 up for auction on ebay, for a starting bid of 22K, less than half it's new cost. The machine is, I think, perhaps a year and a half, or two, old, and the seller says it's in good condition. That's a current model machine. As for software to design in, many people prefer Rhino. Not quite as jewelry specific as some of the programs, some of which amount to cut and paste editors supplying standard shapes and parts. Easy to use and learn, but limited in their creative potential and output to those standard sorts of things. Rhino is much more generic, takes longer to learn, but once you do, you can make just about anything in it. And it's moderately priced. Peter Rowe Some of the tabletop cnc machines mentioned will work fine. Denford and Pro Light are commonly used. I heard that Haas is coming out with a miniature machine specifically for this purpose. As for software, take a look at Artcam, Type 3, and Mastercam Art http://www.mastercam.com/Products/Art/Default.asp I work for a Mastercam reseller, so my bias is toward that product. You can take flat 2D geometry (.eps, .ai, or convert raster images) and create a 3D mesh very quickly without having to create any 3D surfaces. Same price as Artcam, but much better 2D machining and CAD functionality. Good luck > >>The 3d printers apparently produce quite arough finish that would be > >>no good for jewellery and they're expensive. I'm happy to be persuaded [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Peter Rowe > Some of the tabletop cnc machines mentioned will work fine. Denford > and Pro Light are commonly used. I heard that Haas is coming out with > a miniature machine specifically for this purpose. Yup, saw it at the machine tool show in Chicago a month ago. Cute 'lil 4th axis too. > As for software, take a look at Artcam, Type 3, and Mastercam Art > http://www.mastercam.com/Products/Art/Default.asp Artcam rulez! But this is the 1st I've seen Mastercam/art. I am a Delcam biggot though(I use PowerShape, and PowerMill) :) no offence, but I've never really liked Mastercam personally. > I work for a Mastercam reseller, so my bias is toward that product. > You can take flat 2D geometry (.eps, .ai, or convert raster images) > and create a 3D mesh very quickly without having to create any 3D > surfaces. Same price as Artcam, but much better 2D machining and CAD > functionality. What, around $7K? > I'd like a small desktop machine to produce jewellery items, rings, > earrings, the odd torc and small sculpture - probably 20-30 cubic [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > really looking for a mega-expensive application used to design high > performance motor car engines! [CAD software, by itself, won't produce the standard CNC output file format (commonly referred to as G-code). There are combination applications, but generally you'll do better if you find a CAD program you can get along with and a separate CAM package that will accept its output and write code you can run on your CNC machine (this often requires a custom "post"). While there are a few CAD programs that work on Macs, most will be Windows-only, and there are almost no CAM programs for the Mac platform.] > > I like the look of the Roland machine > http://www.torcomp.com/products/product_detail.cfm?productid=9275 > which is a good price too at <US$4000. I mention this just to give the > idea - if there is something with better detail, faster, bigger, > cheaper and so forth on the market, then I'd love to hear about it! [There are other machines on the market, some of which are bigger, faster, or get better detail; they aren't necessarily cheaper, though. The nicest thing about the MDX-20 from Roland (which you link to above) is its excellent scanning function, which can supplement your 3d modeling abilities. ] > The 3d printers apparently produce quite arough finish that would be > no good for jewellery and they're expensive. I'm happy to be persuaded > that I'm wrong here too! [While it's true they are expensive, there are RP systems which have surface quality good enough for jewelry applications. Peter Rowe pointed some out in his reply to this thread. The big advantage to this type of model construction is the design freedom afforded - pretty much any part configuration can be built, unlike CNC, which requires that a tool be able to reach all the model's surfaces while it is also supported somehow during the cutting process.] > To me the ultimate would be to have a system that enabled you to do > jewellery and sculpture design with a VR headset (Virtual Reality) and > a data glove - anything with a user interface approaching this level > of simplicity would be good (does the Mac do something like this??). [As far as I know, there's nothing like that for the Mac. The closest I've seen is the system from Sensable Technologies, which uses a "haptic" arm device that lets you feel like you're actually contacting the surface of your model. There is a separate company that has wedded this with a stereo display, so one can get a 3d picture of what one is "touching".] > I'd really like to use this as a tool to design jewellery and make > sculpture - I'm not wanting to become an expert on some complex [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Any ideas of what I should be going for? [How much do you want to spend?] Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com > > To me the ultimate would be to have a system that enabled you to do > > jewellery and sculpture design with a VR headset (Virtual Reality) and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > your model. There is a separate company that has wedded this with a stereo > display, so one can get a 3d picture of what one is "touching".] I've had a look at that - it looks impressive. The company is very shy about prices - which, to me, is seldom a good sign. Have you actually tried this kit? I'm not sure that the stereo view would be vital, nice, yes, but, if you have your piece on a turntable and you have good rendering software then you can see what it looks like pretty well - and now home computers are quite powerful enough to do rendering that would have required a fifty k's worth of workstation to do a few years ago. > > > To me the ultimate would be to have a system that enabled you to do > > > jewellery and sculpture design with a VR headset (Virtual Reality) and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I've had a look at that - it looks impressive. The company is very shy > about prices - which, to me, is seldom a good sign. [Right - if you have to ask... But they seem to be selling the "Omni" arm with the "Concept" software for about $4000, which isn't bad considering there are many software-only solutions that cost a lot more. The "Phantom" arm with the "Freeform" software is still about $20k.] > Have you actually tried this kit? [Yes, a few times. It was enough to be impressed with it, but not to get any real facility - that would take some time.] > I'm not sure that the stereo view would be vital, nice, yes, but, if > you have your piece on a turntable and you have good rendering > software then you can see what it looks like pretty well - and now > home computers are quite powerful enough to do rendering that would > have required a fifty k's worth of workstation to do a few years ago. [The trouble with working on 3d parts with only a 2d view to go on is that there's an inescapable ambiguity between where you think you are and where you really are. By the time you've rotated the view, it's too late - if you miscalculated, you need to undo and try again. The haptic interface helps with this, but stereo vision (or a better sort of 3d display) would help more, I'd think. I haven't tried this, though.] Andrew Werby www.computersculpture.com Peter I use and sell a solution to jewelers that uses the Roland MDX-15. Please take a look at my website @ http://www.3dwaxmill.com I think you will be very impressed. Also see my forum and what my members have done and say about the system. http://3dwaxmill.com/phpBB2/index.php?c=2 Best regards Jeff Dunnington Free MagazinesGet these publications absolutely FREE for up to 12 months. There are no hidden fees and no obligation. Simply choose a title, complete the application form and submit it. Read more ...
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